Before we continue this conversation Nibelung I would like to be sure you understand the full context of what I wrote. This conversation is based of the premise of making the following change to syms primary.
Let me know after reading this and perhaps the rest of the conversations string of possible changes so you are caught up on the ideas we have all been throwing around.
If the beam damage started at 90dps, and by the time it made it to a full second ramped up to surpass the orb, in the time it would have taken the orb to reach full charge, it would equal out, and maintaining targeting would allow you to easily surpass the damage youâd do with an orb.
There would be no reason to continue to utilize the secondary fire within 12m, because it would be superior, unless using it in a combination manner when closing distance.
I think secondary would still be viable for dueling, especially on smaller targets. The hitbox of the projectile is far more forgiving as opposed to the pinpoint accuracy required for the beam.
I believe once you landed a secondary orb though, switching to primary would be in your best interest on a smaller target for the purpose of finishing the kill. Waiting an entire additional second to charge the right click, and potentially miss losing out on all damage is a far worse price to pay in a duel vs doing consistent damage, even if itâs trickling at the proposed new starting rate of the beam fire.
It would also allow for us to to better deal with flanking type characters. As it stands now, Sombra, Tracer and Genji, the characters we previously countered, now eat our proverbial lunches.
I would like that to be balanced out so that itâs 50/50 on survival, not an easy kill for those characters. If the damage starts off higher on the primary beam, theyâll not treat as so much fodder, as theyâll actually be taking a risk.
Yeah, I read that. Iâm team âraise the beam damageâ since Geoff told us about the removal of lock-on. 90~100 DPS might be a good starting point, but I donât think it should start at 60 DPS when accuracy is an issue.
I was talking that it was funny that your solution end up going full circle, and are trying to bring back the balance Sym already had before the rework.
How about a compromise? 120 DPS on her beam, and relatively thick for ease of tracking.
Not really. Sym 2.0âs balance was terrible. She had NOTHING that other supports could not do better.
Her right click spam is exactly what I wanted for her orbs but I wish they still bypassed shields like before instead of explode. I also donât mind her beam weapon but it doesnât feel unique? I donât see why they donât just create some sort of new attack. (although I do like the shield charging thing)
It needs to charge faster. Itâs incredibly niche otherwise.
You donât want to go down that hole, or it will derail the thread big time. Iâll just leave that I, personally, always thought Sym2 was actually closer to OP than UP, and I was always baffled that people judged her a âtroll pickâ.
But regardless of her own status, the balance between the firing modes of her guns were always excellent. You might argue about the effectiveness of each firing mode on its own, but they did had clear purposes each: Beam for close range, orb for long range.
Sym3 is very, very muddy in this aspect. Orb is the only long range option, but itâs also debatable that it shines at close range too when compared to the current beam. So, you need to make the beam stronger, so that you go back to having a clear best option for close range, despite also having a good ranged option.
Honestly, reworking her primary fire was the biggest mistake of this entire rework.
Lock on photon projector was more of a DPS weapon than this joke of a weapon we have now.
With lock on we had guaranteed damage. With the new photon projector we have⌠More range but at what cost?
Yeah more damage but itâs entirely negated by any armor due to the fact that it deals 20 ticks of damage per second meaning that even at level 3 charge, its damage is entirely cut in half by armor.
You need PERFECT tracking to deal great damage. With the lock on beam things were balanced because we had to put ourselves in harmâs way to deal damage but we at least had more ammo, guaranteed damage and a faster ramp up time.
This new beam gets you killed for using it. Itâs utterly useless, even to âbreak down barriersâ youâd be better off picking Junkrat or Bastion.
Easy fix to ALL of this would be to bring back the old primary fire EXACTLY the way it used to be but remove its ability to clip through walls as that was genuinely unfair.
By reverting primary fire she would:
Have a primary fire useful for close range engagements and access to guaranteed damage over time
And a secondary fire useful for close - long range depending on the situation and access to burst damage
Rather than
Having a primary fire that is more trouble than itâs worth and gets you killed by using it
And a secondary fire that is the only thing you should be depending on
They literally created a defective DPS hero good job Blizzard.
Well said, thank you. I wanted to say something of the sort, but figured someone else could word it better.
The primary attack on symmetra though does need to be addressed and fixed, and hopefully we donât have to wait another year for that to happen, is why I want to keep attention on this topic so it canât be just forgotten about or overlooked.
When I play symmetra, I still play her even in her current state, because Iâm a fan of setting traps, I play her to what I believe is the best of her ability, of my own ability. I hover around 2500-2700 SR, which isnât the best in the world by any means, but I feel isnât too shabby either. Symmetra 2.0 for me was the best iteration, I hovered more around 2600-2800 SR with it, and I always solo Queue.
When I play games in comp, and people say âsym is trollingâ Iâm not trolling, Iâm actually trying to win. However, in her current state, I can acknowledge that Symmetra may not actually be the best hero I could be playing. Other DPSâs are better. Symmetra fails to properly DPS, and she utterly fails to be a support. She excels at nothing.
Fixing her primary attack would be all the fix she needs to properly fill the DPS role. The reason is, she can spam up hallways and mid-range with her sentries and alt fire, but sheâs not even a challenge at all to pick off. Sheâs deleted by literally every hero on the roster if they just choose to go after her. Just get in close. If her primary fire werenât such a joke then this wouldnât be such a big issue. She would actually be a threat, as any DPS should be, and you should beware getting too close to her.
When people say âsym is badâ or âsym is trollâ I have to agree that the hero is not the ideal pick. Personally as the player, I try my best to win. I would like to not have to acknowledge that however, I could be playing something more beneficial.
It would be nice if Blizzard would acknowledge this as well.
I honestly do not believe that. Especially since you and I play in the same ranking.
Do you primarily solo queue? Because that would most certainly change your perspective quite a bit from mine.
I play only in a trio stack. I play Mei and my other two friends play Sym and Roadhog.
Our Sym outdamages us and gives our comp a lot of mobility. We won all 10 of our placement matches this season using this comp. With only twice having to substitute Roadhog for Rein.
I guess i play against stupid Syms. Everytime i see that wall go up, my team and I just walk through it and resume the game. Itâs not entirely useless, but so close to useless that it shouldnât be in the game.
They could make the hitbox increase as it rams up, or they could decrease the time for it to ramp up. Currently it takes about 2s, how about 1.6s? Her primary IS pretty situational now after all.
Yes, Zarya called and laughed when she heard that people were considering giving Sym a 180 dps beam constantly. Then she cried.
I play both and if you want to maximize Symâ s primary fire get good with Zarya⌠feels almost the same from an aiming perspective.
I will also say the 2m bump they did to Syms primary really helped as well.
The wall is very useful if put in the right place - yes you can walk through but you canât fire through it, your team has to barrier dance in most cases which cuts average dps from the enemy down to a least 50%âŚ
The reason sheâs not a good pick right now is because her kit isnât complete. Itâs not fully realized, and as a result, she doesnât bring much more to the table than a solid DPS character can. Her utility does offer the team some benefits, but she trades that off with not having the finishing or staying power of a pure DPS character.
I just want Symmetra to not be considered a troll pick, and I think that can be achieved by tweaking her here and there to have her kit fully realized and be a solid contribution to any team.
This actually isnât true, at all.
Because thatâs not how hitboxes work, especially in this game.
Say the hero youâre playing is [ X ] the X is you, everything within [ ] is your hit box, anything within that box hits you and deals damage to you.
If youâre dancing between a | barrier, enemy can still shoot you even when youâre âdancingâ through it.
[ | ]
[| ]
|[ ]
You understand? It takes them less time to pass through that barrier to continue shooting you than it does for you t pass throgh it completely again yourself.
Therefore, a more realistic # for how much damage the âwall danceâ prevents you in that situation is more like maybe 15-20%, far less than your proposed 50%.
No offense, but as someone who plays Sym fairly regularly barrier dance is done often to very good effect⌠yes, if you are terribly close to the wall the hit box becomes an issue but most people are not that close. Sorry, I get what you are saying in theory but it doesnât play out like that as there is often greater distance beyond the walls for enemies. It might not be 50%, but it sure is higher than 15-20%âŚ
Not in the given scenario that was described: Laying down a horizontal barrier and âdancingâ through it to advance toward enemy. Because you understand, the enemy doesnât need to 100% clear the barrier themselves to shoot. They only need to clear the | barrier portion which is very small. You however, attempting to avoid damage, need to clear all of [___] hitbox space and all you have is |.
At best, the barrier will prevent trash damage. But if someone is actually aiming at you and trying to shoot you, that barrier does diddly.