objectively?
not at all
any such evaluation is entirely subjective, as there is no one universal measure that can be used to determine who is “running rampant” and who is not
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Iirc, I have a lifetime wr of 64 % on sym. I swear I never lose eichenwald defense. She is like my second most played. People really don’t know how to use her. She can shred people and the orb tempo and hold have a lot of applications. TP is an amazing ability how it is.
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He has many heroes that either slow his progress or change his engagement, but I don’t see them as true counters. Sombra, Cass, and Brig were great counters once upon a time, but their CC (the only actual counter to a hero like Doom) has been gutted.
Hack is terrible now. Cass’s nade is worse. Orisa and Sigma have to carry the CC load now against Doom.
‘‘X thing that killed me’’ is not a DF Counter.
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Doom has a couple hard counters and only because his cancer hero design literally enforces that he must have them because 90% of hero’s literally can’t do anything if doom is making the right choices (and he doesn’t require any special level of mechanical skill either, it’s just unorthodox hero knowledge that doesn’t transfer to other hero’s… same as genji)
“Gee why would they allow hard counters for a supremely mobile 3 second cooldown CC kill combo tank to exist? God doom players deal with the HARDEST lives”
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Here’s the thing, you’re version of “great counters” is “these heroes full stop prevented this character from playing the game”…
No.
They are still counters in their current form. Doom doesn’t need to get stun locked and blow up for it to be a counter.
No one said it was. In fact it’s the opposite. Things don’t need to kill for it to be a counter. Once you get your elo up, you’ll realize that I hope.
I personally think unless more heroes have similar abilities (Like how Juno and Lucio both have speed boosts) then “counters” really don’t fit in the game.
It was an interesting mechanic to implement but they’ve NEVER done it well and really shouldn’t focus on it. There’s match ups like snipers V flying characters sure, but a good Echo and a very good Phara can sneak up on them fairly effectively.
–but the way they’ve been using counters in 5v5, especially with tanks is horrendous. Not as bad now that the heroes aren’t locked in the battle pass anymore but it’s still poorly used. (frankly 5v5 balance has never been good but its gotten better here and there.)
“These heroes have the ability to protect the backline.” Fixed it for you.
Nope. They merely can move, but Doom just jumps away free to get healed and harass the backline again.
Moving out of the way isn’t a counter. That’s like saying Ashe counters Widow because she can move behind a wall.
He’s too mobile and has ridiculous damage reduction. Yes, cc is the only way to effectively kill him. Getting him low does nothing. He just jumps away, heals, and comes back.
Cool, they still have that.
Fixed it for you.
Again. Something doesn’t have to die for it to be a counter. Please go up in elo, I beg.
DOOM DOES NOT HAVE TO DIE FOR IT TO BE A COUNTER
No, they don’t. That’s the problem. Hack is useless, shield bash is, too. Cass’s nade is worse than either.
An ultra mobile hero who can wnter the backline in seconds has to die. It takes too little time for Doom to be impactful.
I speak for my experience at my elo, so this doesn’t matter.
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Yes they do. Brig doesn’t need shield bash to be a doom counter.
No… he literally does not.
Your ultra tunnel vision view on counters is hurting you here.
He doesn’t have to die… UNLESS HIS UPTIME IS NEARLY CONSTANT
doom as a tank with his uptime his as cancerous as tracer would be with a 9 second recall cooldown.
Tracer doesn’t have to die to be re feted useless either, but the issue is how soon they can come back and how little you can punish them for it.
What mistake DOES lead to dooms death without CC? Turning his controller off? Bffr now.
Yes jumping on at the wrong time without CC should be a death sentence. And unlike monkey who has a long cooldown on barrier and can’t dive without it or he dies, doom has very short and self sustaining cooldowns and they BUY HIM MORE TIME as he is engaging, meaning you usually have next to 0 window of opportunity against him ever.
You can only make windows by killing him after you CC him during a key moment.
That’s so horse ****.
Let’s run through a hypothetical: you’re playing a push map. Doom jumps into your backline. He doesn’t get anyone with his punch, and you and your team are smart enough to stop shooting his block. Doom is low, so he jumps out to his backline.
By the time your team pushes up to pressure the enemy front line, guess who has full hp and all cooldowns available…Doomfist.
That is best case scenario where he misses his punch, takes a fair amount of damage, and doesn’t get empowered punch.
You seem to think I’m a low elo player, so feel free to tell me where I’m wrong in this completely feasible hypothetical because the way I see it, if Doom doesn’t die, you’re back to square one where he jumps the backline again.
We are not going to sit here and say “buy him more time” when doom is literally the lowest survivability dive tank.
He is the one dive tank who CAN’T just sit there on an engage refreshing his self sustain lmfao.
Monkey, dva and ball all have the capability to dive in and SIT on that dive. Doomfist does not.
This is such a braindead comment.
Especially when we are talking about one of the tanks with the highest average death count in the game BECAUSE it’s so easy to make a mistake and blow up.
You managed to pick the ONE tank in the game, where saying “CC is the only mistake that leads to death” is just hilariously and objectively untrue, across the board.
That doesn’t matter. Bro yall gotta like expand your thinking. Doom being able to just go in and escape instantly means NOTHING if he’s not DOING anything. If you are forcing the doom out to where he’s having to go in with one ability and leave with the other, he’s not getting value like that.
There is a reason no one plays the hero outside of his die hard OTP’s lmfao. This hero is not good.
lol I would shred you as Sym
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They also reveal enemies. Which is actually super valuable early fight to spot out flankers. Tell me you don’t know how to play Sym or never played with a good one without saying it…
It’s not exactly stealth game, so it’s unimportant.
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What a load of ****
Lmao doom is only picked by OTP because of the same reason as junkrat- unorthodox playstyle and mechanics that don’t transfer to other hero’s… and as such if you like his mechanics a lot you’re unlikely to perform well on others or find them as fun
And by the by, doom has performed very well according to blizzard for the vast majority of ow2 lifespans other than the early seasons. So. This bogus little game yall doom mains play to paint him as a fragile weak tank with no lasting presence is, again, a load of ****.
And to clarify, the “buy him more time” thing was referencing how he needs just a couple seconds to regain his mobility cooldowns to escape 90% free.
If you don’t kill him before his cooldown is back, he either MASSIVELY misplayed and your entire team capitalized (and he didn’t have a support with an immo or save which is rare) or, as is 90% of the time, he leaps out for free.
The entire reason doom works is because he’s dangerous enough to demand your resources but has such short cooldowns and is self sufficient enough that he can win the resource war with soft dives that if you fail to react to become real dives, and if it’s not time yet he can just leave. He does this over and over until he’s won the resource war and knows you can’t fight back properly, or he continues the cycle of jumping in to force attention and leave safely.
And the only way to break his loop is a massive misplay on his end (where one of his short *** cooldowns aren’t available somehow if he’s poorly managing them) OR you hard CC him out of one and he can no longer buy time before his next scape.
Far chance of he has a good kiriko though. Doom + suzu means now you need 2 CC abilities to kill him, or you need him to be total a** at doom and fail to get value.
Dva and Winston are far superior dive tank designs because they don’t rely on CC to buy them time for their maneuvers, they instead block incoming damage (which can be used for their team as well, useful AS A TANK ROLE for gameplay to be fun for everyone) AND they have counterplay outside of “hard CC”. They have nearly the same design concepts except that doom fist tanks by turning the enemies controller off every 3 seconds with punch, and instead of blocking for his team he blocks for himself for an even stronger (and more annoying) CC
LITERALLY sucks the fun out of the game for everyone involved for both teams. 2nd most trash tank design in the game and prime reason 5v5 is a horrid mistake.
Replace Symm’s TP with sometime like Moira’s fade. Simple.
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