I just would like to hear arguments against it especially if they are sensible
My arguments for each to support is
Sombra: Mirrorwatch Sombra… Mirrorwatch pretty much proved you can and could have made her a support. And to be real she was the healthiest she had ever been (Agreed by all ranks), plus even during damage in overwatch 1 she had pro players pretty much using her as a support in one way or another so it could be done but mirrorwatch is the superior option
Symmetra - Was already a support and to be real at this point… They have done all they can do with her on damage. Plus her kit is still basically support/utility. Give her back her shield generator and photon shield (which granted 25 shielding until character died and change it to fit like brig or lifeweaver) and she can go back to it
Torbjörn - Always been a weird been a weird case because at first he was defensive/utility/support then he was moved to straight damage but he’s never been able to clear the hump and has been truly niche not even serviceable, viable or optimal… You technically already have the tools to make this with Illari (In which Torb says he can reverse engineer) and Brig (his daughter… which means more than likely she updated his original scrap to armor pack idea) So the idea for change is there
To me support is to provide healing, support, and/or utility and with everyone getting a healing passive the pressure to become healbots and the need to be a healer is greatly reduced and game sense/management is more need in order to survive
But i can’t wait to hear you argument or statements against it… Let me know
I think Torb is fine in the damage role and underrated.
Sym and Sombra, I wouldn’t mind a support rework at this point. Although I’m so sick of reworks for the both of them that I kind of feel they should just be left alone.
Torb used to be more support when he could throw out armor packs it wasnt a very fun char at the time it was just very boring cause you were always asked to give armor and couldnt shoot as much. His direction has vastly improved i do wish his turret tho could be replaced or had a mobile mode at least. Symmetra too had shields but the way they functioned meant they got wasted a lot of the time. Her shield ultimate was ok just didnt like the floating shield walls. Sombra I wont really say any more about she can still sorta fill the support role but her going around having to hack every health pack as a support would not be fun for anyone and she would be forced to do that if she became a support role character.
Now after saying all that would you like all 3 of these characters moved into a new category so it would be like Tank, 2 dps, support, 2 heals? I just dont think that would work with a single tank unfortunately
Torbjorn is fine as a DPS. He lost armor packs ages ago and he has been tuned up to be pretty formidable but often underrated.
Symmetra’s problem is that her kit as a DPS doesn’t know what it wants her to be. She has turrets for defense, a teleporter for dive, a fast moving projectile for poke, and a slow-to-charge beam for brawl. She also has a tank ultimate, but her hitbox is oversized from her lock-on days and she struggles with survivability and lethality as a DPS compared to her peers.
Sombra will never be balanced or feel fun to play while she’s a stealth assassin. When she was first released, the devs stated at the time that they didn’t want her to be a stealth assassin because that type of gameplay wasn’t fun to go against. Then 2 happened and they pretty much threw that out the window, gave her hack in cloak, and then made her a stealth assassin. Sombra’s problem is that her kit wants to focus on utility and damage but they’re both fairly mediocre. Sombra is a pubstomper because people don’t pay attention to their supports, but a little teamwork totally disrupts Sombra and shuts her down almost completely.
Torb is a hard no as a support imo. Symmetra could still work as a DPS but they have to pick what they want her to be good at and push her in that direction instead of one with her finger in every pot that’s suboptimal compared to someone else. Sombra would make the most sense as a support imo, but I just can’t see them implementing healing into her kit in a way that would make sense for her lore. Hacking health packs wouldn’t be enough and her funny little ally hack from the mirrorwatch event is niche and would be hard to balance and feel meaningful.
Gotta remember too we had to build our turrets and it only got automatic when we did our ultimate (which then turned to level 3)
I think with his auto level 2 turret and his overdrive (that mobile mode you were talking about) bringing back repair pack wouldn’t be such a bad idea and he can more time to shoot
Funny enough I liked they fact they could block D.VA bombs if done properly but for asking Sym to come back to support we can leave that out
I meant that idea can still be possibly/plausible but it would have to be 2-2-2-1…
2 Tanks
2 DPS
2 Healers
1 Support/Utility/Flex (And that can include Sombra, Brig, Doom (Maybe), Sym, Torb, Mei (Maybe even though I would put her as tank for diversity)) and this way you can truly separate the difference between support and healing if you truly wanted too
They havent tried not nerfing her every 6 months for pro play crimes.
They havent tried anything to make her work as a DPS. In fact, they do everything in their power to stop her the moment she is anywhere passable as a DPS hero.
Sym doesnt work as a DPS for the same reason any other DPS hero wouldnt work in her shoes: incessant nerfs to her damage and survivability.
Both Photon Shield and Shield Gen were defense hero abilities, not support abilities.
Sentries havent been a purely defensive ability for years. Sentrybombing exists for a reason, and its trivially easy to make them even more versatile - if only Blizz didnt nerf them constantly for the crimes of team TP.
Survivability I can agree with you on. However anything truly done with her damage and she shreds EVERYONE at DPS except those at longer ranges than her or pack a punch with headshots (Ashe, Cassidy) and as far as tanks go her and Zarya go burr through most of that line up
But they can be used as support abilities as they provide increase survivability and utility
Every single close range brawl DPS and tank can destroy her even at her highest DPS historical DPS numbers.
Symmetra has been in a much better state than right now, and she has never been a threat to other DPS that she isnt supposed to counter, much less tanks.
So really there is no real proof of this.
If its not healing its not a support ability. Healing is the only thing that is exclusive to the support role.
Sym used to be a defense DPS in everything but label with those abilities. Sym 2.0 was closer to being an off tank than a support.
Let orbs headshot. Make alt fire work like Illari, max charge orb on fire, then if she fires immediately afterward it’s a smaller orb until it charges to full again.
Make TP instant for Sym. Other chars in party have to wait until it’s done building to use it.
Take away first level of charge for Sym, make first level between 1st and 2nd starting power.
Give Shield Wall a beneficial effect to teammates, 25 shields if they walk through it, 25 dmg for enemies if they walk through it.
I think the fact that there were 2 actual support heros in the lobby made it look like sombra could be a good support. But I have no doubt that people would immediately complain about a support that could go invisible if she ever was good.
By this logic, JunkerQueen is a support as her shout gives allies survivability.
No Symmetra as she was, was a terrible support. No direct healing and with everyone having universal passive healing nowadays, the benefits of her shield HP from ability or Gen is useless.
Why waste resources on support Symmetra when she was a Defense hero, like Torb, Junkrate and Mei, at best during her time in the VERYYY low Support roster. No other hero had a substitute-for-healing-to-be-classified-as-support-function like Symmetra. More indicative of a Dev error than validation as her role as a support.
Lucio: Adds temporary health as an ultimate, adds speed boost to allies, Heals allies, boops to create space.
Utility Healer
JQ: Adds temporary health on a cooldown, with a speed boost component to allies. Uses dagger to pull foes in. Heals herself by dealing damage with abilities.
Utility DPS
They both have utility. Having utility doesn’t necessarily make you a healer, but being able to deal DPS doesn’t make you a DPS, and being able to survive damage doesn’t make you a tank…
I’ve confused myself. So Lucio makes the entire team tanks with an ult. JQ makes entire team tanks with a cooldown.
All of this is a fallacy but let’s take it from Overwatch itself on what each role is
Tank: Tank heroes soak up damage and shatter fortified positions, like closely grouped enemies and narrow chokepoints. If you’re a tank, you lead the charge.
Damage: Damage heroes seek out, engage, and obliterate the enemy with wide-ranging tools, abilities, and play styles. Fearsome but fragile, these heroes require backup to survive.
Support: Support heroes empower their allies by healing, shielding, boosting damage, and disabling foes. As a support, you’re the backbone of your team’s survival
All three of the characters (Sombra, Torb, and Sym) in one form or another majority of their kit could be or is apart of the support role
Not saying you per say but i really feel like support and healer need to be separate so people can understand more than one playstyle can exist and that by trying to fit everyone in a box we are helping in turn magnifying the already consistent problems in this game
You’re acting like this wasn’t tried once already in OW1.
Symmetra’s kit was good for support back then, although I’d argue she should have been on the defense roster than than support, but they didn’t really have a good category system then, and they still don’t now.
Sombra is cancer. Yes, she supports her team to an extent by hacking health packs, denying the enemy team healing and can assist with healing with quick respawn of health packs. Yes, she can shut down some ults, and delay some other abilities, but ultimately she’s still DPS. The virus + emptied magazine in face of opponent does a real number on them. If you’ve never been on the receiving end, it’s much like Tracer when she’s nose to nose with you.
Torb is just fine the way he is. He doesn’t really need anything. He’s got sustain, even without his turret his damage is appreciable, his ult is area denial and with the combination of other abilities from other characters, they can be forced into his magma. I think Torb is good, and synergizes well with just about every tank in the roster, and he doesn’t require a lot of babysitting by healers.
Yes, Sym needs help, earlier I posted what I think needs to be changed about her to make her a viable DPS character. I didn’t see any responses to that, it’s like everyone thought I was kidding.
Sombra, while she’s got a boatload of utility in her kit, some of that utility is actually detrimental. I don’t like the permainvis mechanic, it hinders your ability to fire straight away and capitalize on a weakened enemy. By the time she comes out of stealth and actually starts shooting, they’ve already been healed most of the way up. She’s great at flanking supports though.
