Sym and dva need love

[Yin-1797]

@Shinigami-15962

Ie turret slows and width of beam (it’s kinda easy to aim compared even to echo or zarya beam)

Symmetra’s beam is thinner than Zarya’s, slightly wider than Echo’s Focusing Beam.

Currently, the way that Sentries gain value is through that combination of stacking slow and damage. Change those, and you’d have to change the way that Sentries operate. Which is fine; but it’s a substantial change that I’m not sure if Blizzard is willing, or many Symmetra players would be.

@Shinigami-15962

But buff her else where to just output more dmg,

Symmetra already outputs incredible amounts of damage. Some of the highest in the game.

@Shinigami-15962

The buffs to dmg could be in a multitude of ways it could be as simple as reducing turret CDs or increasing beam length etc

Damage wouldn’t increase with buffs to Sentry cooldown, and it’s fairly good change overall.

Beam length is not possible as long as Sentries can cover and attack at the various angles. And not to mention that Symmetra’s own damage can be combined with it.

@Omni2-11163

Never knew that was the reason but seems they didn’t do a good job

Nope, it was not.

@Cameron-22892

Her redesign tried to keep her as a utility hero, which means that she has inconsistent damage output as compensation. This would be fine for a Support, but as a damage hero, you kinda need good damage…

Outside of Sentries, all damage sources of Symmetra’s got increased. So this is false.

@Cameron-22892

Taking a look at Torb’s rework, they hit the nail on the head. Removed his utility, reduced his reliance on turrets, and increased his independant damage output with his weapon.

No, this is wrong.

Torbjorn’s turret was reduced to one level instead of three. Torbjorn himself, did not see any damage increases, nor did his damage decrease. Overload was added because of Molten Core’s originally, created a level 3 turret that produced rockets in addition to a faster attack speed. All of that functionality is on BOB now. Overload merely replaces that loss.

@TooEasy-11398

She needs survivability. Every other close range character has something to keep them alive… sym doesn’t

Shields, and she’s not a close-ranged hero.

@Yourself-11293

Syms turrets are the problem in lower ranks. If you distribute her power away from turrets she’ll be a lot better. There’s a reason both turret heroes in the game have insane winrates in bronze.

Can’t really do that since Symmetra is a builder built around her devices. It’s more akin to Blizzard’s design stubborness to include Teleporter in every part of her kit during re-works, when it would’ve been better to simply remove it and focus more on her spacial control.

@Yourself-11293

D.va… er… maybe reduce her spread? I’ve though buffing matrix would be good, but that’s what the pros use mainly and she’s already good there.

D.va has fairly low spread. About .5 degrees larger than Tracer’s. She also has infinite ammo and doesn’t need to reload, ever. This allows her extrordinarily high damage output; but range is a huge factor. Optimal range is slightly better than Reaper’s, but no one wants to play D.va at that range for a number of reasons.

One possibility would be remove the infinite ammo that D.va has and in turn that can boost her damage output (she has fairly high sustained damage); into something more burst-y or spikey. This would kinda collude with Self-Destruct - her main burst-oriented damage - but I think this would be fair. Otherwise; she remains in great shape. The main problem is that other Tanks are functionally outliers at the moment.

@Ranulf-1999

Do you really think that a hero that requires massive set up and teamwork for mediocre reward and her effective range is ALSO her suicide range and ALSO has zero on demand burst or mobility can even qualify as a pubstomper in the ranks where is more likely to be mass reported than team pocketed like she needs to.

This is still, mostly false.

Once again, a sentry that lasts more than one second has already earned it’s value and then some. If three sentries can get one kill without all of them being destroyed in the process, they’ve returned back their value threefold.

@Ranulf-1999

Look past the very low damage destroyable sentries please. Soldier and Ashe are more of a noobstomper than Sym in bronze and silver.

They also require more mechanical aim than Symmetra; so it’s warranted.

[Ranulf-1999]

@Yin-1797

Once again, a sentry that lasts more than one second has already earned it’s value and then some. If three sentries can get one kill without all of them being destroyed in the process, they’ve returned back their value threefold.

A 30s cooldown is worth only 1 kill? In a game where some heroes are allowed to oneshot from anywhere in the map with only 1 second of charging, your statement is insane and biased.

@Yin-1797

They also require more mechanical aim than Symmetra; so it’s warranted.

Who are the heroes that have literal aimbot ultimates? Certainly not Symmetra.

And Hitscan will always and irrefutably be easier than any Projectile hero. Soldier is literally the noob starter hero by design.

Again, you are so biased it makes you stupid.

[Yin-1797]

@Ranulf-1999

A 30s cooldown is worth only 1 kill? In a game where some heroes are allowed to oneshot from anywhere in the map with only 1 second of charging, your statement is insane and biased.

ONE SENTRY IS TEN (10) SECONDS.

@Ranulf-1999

Again, you are so biased it makes you stupid.

You’re bordering on report here.

[Arcadium-11882]

Never argue with Yin re: Sym - this person is on another planet where logic doesn’t exist. Wasted effort

[Krojack-1117]

Change Symm’s primary to a laser gun. Because it’s now a laser, which is light, it’s hit register is faster than hitscans. BAM Symm is now viable.

[Ranulf-1999]

@Yin-1797

ONE SENTRY IS TEN (10) SECONDS.

One sentry does 10 damage more than a melee hit.

@Yin-1797

You’re bordering on report here.

You come uninvited to add literally nothing to a discussion of a hero that you clearly dont play nor care beyond putting it down, and for what?

You are behaving like an obnoxious contrarian at every point in any discussion just for the sake of it.

I have no patience for people like you and you are not welcome to any Sym discussion because all you do is spout half truths trying to sound smart.

[McCrow-11518]

I had a conversation with this person and insisting that symm 2.0 tp was always placed outside the spawn not inisde.

I had to literally post a video from symm 2.0 days to convince that its not the case, this person love to spew some wrong information just for the sake of conversation/argument and Have that I’m right you are wrong attitude.
Not to mention the habit of qouting almost every single replies a thread have.

If I were you i wont humor any reply in the future.

[Omni2-11163]

@Ranulf-1999

Do you really think that a hero that requires massive set up and teamwork for mediocre reward and her effective range is ALSO her suicide range and ALSO has zero on demand burst or mobility can even qualify as a pubstomper

In the lower ranks where people don’t have any awareness and basically give her the lvl3 beam for free…yes absolutely.
Even a simple turretbomb can devestate an entire team there

[Cameron-22892]

@Yin-1797

Outside of Sentries, all damage sources of Symmetra’s got increased. So this is false.

Yeah, and what? Utility heroes still have damage output.

Her rework gave her more utility with an infinite sized barrier and a team teleporter. She is categorised as a utility DPS by every high rank player

@Yin-1797

Torbjorn’s turret was reduced to one level instead of three.

His rework made him less of a turret babysitter. Now he just chucks it down and focuses on his own damage output, rather than building the turret.

@Yin-1797

Torbjorn himself, did not see any damage increases, nor did his damage decrease.

Oh really?

@GeoffGoodman

• Primary fire projectile speed increased from 60 to 70
• Reload time reduced from 2.2 to 2 seconds

Secondary Fire:

@GeoffGoodman

• Recovery lowered from 0.8 to 0.6 seconds
• Total damage per shot lowered from 150 to 125
• Reload time reduced from 2.2 to 2 seconds
• Spread pattern adjusted and random spread reduced by 50%

@Yin-1797

Overload was added because of Molten Core’s originally, created a level 3 turret that produced rockets in addition to a faster attack speed. All of that functionality is on BOB now. Overload merely replaces that loss.

This is a really weird statement. Who cares whether Ashe has his old ult? Molten Core replaced his utility ability and significantly increases his survivability and damage output for a period.

[Yin-1797]

@Cameron-22892

Yeah, and what? Utility heroes still have damage output.

Her rework gave her more utility with an infinite sized barrier and a team teleporter. She is categorised as a utility DPS by every high rank player

Teleporter was always available for the team.

Most Defense-oriented healers did have utility.

@Cameron-22892

His rework made him less of a turret babysitter. Now he just chucks it down and focuses on his own damage output, rather than building the turret.

Yep. They streamlined it. Doesn’t cost scrap, scrap is no longer used, either.

@Cameron-22892

Oh really?

Projectile speed and reload times don’t have anything to do with damage.

As for secondary fire, the current Torbjorn is producing 150 damage thanks to a number of changes to shotgun changes. So this ended up having no changes.

@Cameron-22892

This is a really weird statement. Who cares whether Ashe has his old ult? Molten Core replaced his utility ability and significantly increases his survivability and damage output for a period.

I think you were trying to say Overload here. Molten Core - the original - also increased his armor for the duration. Overload keeps that armor (though to a lesser degree) and ties the haste effect that benefitted the old level 3 turret to Torbjorn himself.

New Molten Core retains the same defensive, space-controlling functions of the original, but ties it into a new operational effect. Overall, I haven’t seen any net benefits, but I haven’t really seen any negatives to it, either. It’s otherwise a good replacement.

[Ven0m-21792]

They got ignored again

[Ranulf-1999]

@Omni2-11163

In the lower ranks where people don’t have any awareness and basically give her the lvl3 beam for free…yes absolutely.

People in bronze have zero awareness of their team, not so of their enemies. Anything that threatens them they will notice fast, not so much things that threatens their allies.

That sentries are somehow a free win just because of ~muh auto aim~ when they deal barely more damage than a melee hit is a myth perpetuated by people who dont have actually played Symmetra in bronze.

@Omni2-11163

Even a simple turretbomb can devestate an entire team there

As someone that has climbed from bronze to Diamond as Sym, the higher I went the better my experiences with Sym became when I got to play her. Bronze is hell because no one supports you, no one follows you through perfectly placed TPs and the best heroes of bronze shred Sym like nothing.

Sym is such a devastatingly bad dps in bronze that GM Sym players like Stevoo have actually lost matches in bronze when doing their unranked to GM challenges, because Sym is a deficient dps with zero agency that has to be enabled by her team and has no real solo carry potential.

[Shinigami-15962]

@Yin-1797

Damage wouldn’t increase with buffs to Sentry cooldown, and it’s fairly good change overall.

It would though due to the fact they charge so slow that some fights u only have 1/2 at any given time

And I’m not talking about spamming them out either

[SOE21-2622]

dVa needs surely some of her strength back, whether is pellet damage upped to 3 from 2, or DM buffs.

Symm is just fundementally designwise a relict of old Defence times, probably best choice to have her in support with Utility and low heals like an offhealer imo.

@Ranulf-1999

Sym is such a devastatingly bad dps in bronze that GM Sym players like Stevoo have actually lost matches in bronze when doing their unranked to GM challenges

How does one end up randomly in Bronze?

[Ranulf-1999]

@SOE21-2622

How does one end up randomly in Bronze?

Oh so now people pretend that unranked to GM challenges arent a thing?

@SOE21-2622

Symm is just fundementally designwise a relict of old Defence times, probably best choice to have her in support with Utility and low heals like an offhealer imo.

You could literally just nuke her playerbase if you do that because her dedicated playerbase always has played her as a DPS.

[Amag203-1240]

Changes I’ve tested in Workshop that aren’t broken:

• 15m Beam
• Orb projectile Velocity at 35m/s
• Turret cooldown at 8 seconds each
• Turret projectile Velocity x2

Changes I wish I can try:

• Turrets only go on cooldown when destroyed.
• Turret deployment speed up (when it hits a surface)
• Teleporter range at 40m

[Ranulf-1999]

@Amag203-1240

Changes I wish I can try:

Can you make Sentries apply the Zarya Grav debuff. You know the one that disables mobility in specific.

[Unnamed-2417]

@Shinigami-15962

They desperately need to be on the next experimental

You have been heard … HUGE buffs incoming

[SOE21-2622]

@Ranulf-1999

Oh so now people pretend that unranked to GM challenges arent a thing?

First off, lets not call it a challenge. And 2nd it meant to be sarcastical, since he is, as far as im aware, a GM player, which means he either bought or threw matches, which is along this so called challenge, as despicable as all the other smurfs and deserves hopefully way more bans.

[k3ith-2880]

sym is actually lowkey pretty decent, shes just hard to play. Go watch dyslexia, harmony, abandoned, etc. Several syms have peaked in top10 in recent history, and are quite comfortably chilling around 4400.

I’m going to give yall a hottake here:
Sym is actually better in high ranks, where people abuse tp and know how to pocket her, than in low ranks, because her turrets are not actually that good.