Swap OW2 Bastion's grenade ability for non-Ult Tank mode?

General Discussion
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If there is one thing that is stated over and over again in most posts, opinions and discussions (not all, of course), it is that the grenade ability of Bastion’s rework seems woefully out of place for Bastion (and a bit boring, but that’s my opinion, since this already exists in slightly modified form several times).

Also, the sad part is that Bastion’s iconic Tank mode is removed (part of his identity) and thus Rocket Jump is gone, which in my opinion was nice for some more mobility and gameplay trickery.

Wouldn’t it be more exciting and interesting to remove the grenade ability and have his tank mode as an E ability, appropriately with cooldown and adjusted numbers for a non-ultimate ability. Thus Bastion would have Rocket Jump back for more mobility (and since no ultimate even more mobility than before), continues to have an ability for explosive damage and an important part of his identity restored.

I mean his identity is that of a heavy military unit, which has different heavy configurations (minigun turret, tank and with OW2 artillery mode for mortar shells), right?

Wouldn’t be the first time that an Ultimate ability is changed to a normal one in a rework.

So Bastion for OW2 would then have 4 forms:

  • Recon (Default)
  • Sentry (Focus Fire)
  • Tank (Explosions/Aoe)
  • Artillery (Ultimate Air Strike)

Sounds pretty awesome to me, more hype and much more diversity than with the grenade ability. Which would show a more logical progression of his abilities according to his identity (Transforming War Machine).

TL;DR
Swap grenade ability for tank mode to maintain and even slightly improve his mobility (rocket jump can be used more often) and keep one of his iconic abilities. Adjust cooldown and numbers of tank mode so that it doesn’t become too OP (less damage, limited number of shots, something like that). Keep his identity intact.

What is your opinion here? Would this be a better alternative? How could it be implemented even better in terms of balancing?

Thanks for your attention.

P.S.: And his healing ability should be added back as a fourth ability, which has already been suggested quite alot, i think?

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I think the ow2 grenade can rocket jump him probably further but I just have no opinion

Bastion just looks really bad in ow2, so I am really holding on saying anything until I play him

And yes, pls

There was no reason to remove it in the first place

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I’d rather drop the grenade and bring self-repair back tbh

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That would be new to me? Had not seen or read anything about it so far.

Definitely, with Bastion’s big hitbox, self-repair was almost a must-have. Also, one of the biggest criticisms of the current Bastion is that his team has to watch out for him/adapt around him, by removing his Self-Heal, he has to be babysitted even more than before, i guess…

Yeah, the grenade ability doesn’t give you an “Oh that’s awesome” feeling…

It just doesn’t feel or look right, even if you were to edit the effect, it’s just not what you’d expect from Bastion after all these years.

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I don’t think it’d be so bad if bastion just healed himself overtime

Make it his passive of smth idk

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Hm, such a heal would have to be relatively weak to not be OP, so it would only make a limited difference in combat, leaving Bastion still needing a healer or tank to babysit.

Bastion’s current Self-Heal can make a significant difference when it comes down to it, like S76 Heal, except Bastion has a hitbox like a tank, which is fine if his kit gives him the ability to compensate for that disadvantage.

Which won’t be the case for his OW2 rework.

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I mean a 300 hp with armor hitscan, with a alt fire that is some where between echo sticky and a junk mine.

On top of mobile sentry mode, that puts your head hit box out of los to anything your shooting at.

And a multi hit junk tire like ult.

I think he will be fine, if not at the very least dependent on a single support to be viable.

Just a numbers balance game that would really determine such at this point.

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with slow af fire rate where if he has current per bullet damage it’ll be worthless

i wouldn’t call a (from what it looks like) -30% movement speed mobile

My main problem with this one is that as junkrat he has to hide, aka downtime, but UNLIKE junkrat he has no mobility to get in/out fast, meaning this ult is worthless on bastion

Now this is true, however the last taste we got was the OWL matches which… well he didn’t look good

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It doesnt have the current damage numbers, the gun was doing roughly 70~80 pod a shot.

At least in the live footage we saw.

Better then standing still waand being an obvious target. While also having a delay to move again.

This is why bastion has both armor, and an extra 100 hp. He can survive engaments other heroes cant. And benefit more from being healed because of that armor, then any other other dps.

I mean like or not the basic kit is fine, he just needs tunning in maybe the damage or cooldown department. Maybe even health/armor ratio.

Stuff that can be changed with some number adjustments.

3 Likes
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You’re certainly not wrong there, which is why I didn’t directly address the usefulness of the grenades in my post. However, I am also concerned about his hero design. A hero can be “viable”, but that doesn’t mean he’s a good hero.

That’s why this post was specifically about Bastion’s grenade ability, as a not insignificant portion of the feedback on his rework agreed on that part, the grenades don’t feel quite right on Bastion. We lose things we generally liked about Bastion for that, things that could probably make him even better than he is with that ability, As long as you tweak the numbers and properties a bit.

Bastion has more potential in gameplay than that and I’m also not the first to have the idea of bringing back the tank mode, which is why I wanted to bring it up.

You yourself see his rework kit as okay in terms of viability, how do you see it from the hero design point of view?

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That depends on what you mean by “Hero Design”

As that can be interpreted as in the overall presentation of the hero, or in terms of mechanical cohesion and functionality.

In the artistic end I find that his rework is for the most part solid, as it keeps his transforming theme intact. I especially like the clever swap of bastions tank treads, and turret stand. As both thematically still work in their new roles. With bastions new fire rate giving him this precision terminator vibe, especially when you consider how tanky he is compared to the rest of the dps.

Be it that the presentation of the sticky grenade does feel off, like their no new animations for it. It fires out of his otherwise normal gun. It’s gooey and sticky, and kind of feels like he picked up some alien tech straight out of halo.

Like maybe it has to do with something torb was working with, especially with it’s coloring being similar to that of torb’s melted metal. But I can see why people are turned off from it.

Game play bastion kit more less address most if not all the major issues with the original design. Sentry now being a base point for bastion, makes him more in line with other DPS. At puts focus on his positioning mid fight, more so then finding a single spot to fire from.

While at the same time allowing him to move in turret form, lets him him have those burst of tank like plays. As it hides his crit box from LOS to his target, making damage more predictable in 1v1s.

At the same time allowing him to adjust around the enemy’s/ his own teams plays. Such as backing up around and a corner to get LOS back to one of your own supports, or by transforming around said corner to avoid unessary damage before bastion can return such.

His new ult make’s a stationary target like his orginal sentry mode does, but it also allows him to attack around LOS. As cutting it’s initial weakness to the likes of snipers/projectiles. It also removes the visual ques of where bastion is aim, so a flanker could probably be caught of guard by bastion aim close to him self.

The sticky grenade also gives bastion the opertunity to catch targets around corners like a junkrat nade. An top of the splash damage opening up multi kill opportunities much in the same vain as a pulse bomb. It might also combo well with grav, as a way to bypass sheilds via a wall/ceiling bonce. Giving him synergy/counterplay with more roles because of it, that he didn’t have otherwise.

So like bastion is packed game play wise. And is genially decently designed from the perspective. Of course it’s a bit of a wait and see, as we don’t know what the new heroes are going to be like. As their might be a tank/support/flanker that just counteracts some aspect of him.

Especially if their is another team cleanse ability added to the game, or if his turret form can be interrupted with the new sombra hack.

Of course, If I misinterpret what you meant there. You can always provide me a little detail on what specifically you want to talk about.