I think support players are predominantly talking about impact instead of survivability though.
The support role is unappealing to the majority of players, and it needs to feel like a protagonist role in order to attract more people. At the moment you may as well call it ‘sidekick’.
It may be that lower ranks probably wont chase down staggers after capping a point or winning a fight, and supports will probably be the ones most often alive last from hanging way too far back and attempting to leave. Either everyone will die or everyone but the support hanging in the back will die and they will just leave the area to regroup, but thats just an assumption on my part.
In higher ranks, supports will use their abilities to escape much more effectively and more often know when a fight is lost and that they need to leave. To prevent staggering and giving enemies unnecessary ult charge.
This is stupidly easy with someone like kiriko thanks to wall climb, suzu, and the long range tp with no LoS requirement, she’s probably the one I get out as last alive most often.
None of that matters though when you cant leave because the teamfight is still ongoing and you can be killed much easier.
your using overbuff your evidence is automatically wrong
True, as support you are more likely to recognize lost fight and escape.
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Let me guess, You have a “feeling” that is not a minority?
Spoiler alert: It is a minority.
Again, you have no idea what you are talking about, you really should stop counting 1-2 pieces of feedback as it is the bible.
No designer on earth does this. I can “feel” unsafe in a small car (due to me being tall) and complain that it “feels unsafe to drive” … they will not change the design of the car for me buddy.
Same extrapolates to 300-1k dudes out of MILLIONS of players. Get real.
You are overexaggerating and living in a different universe if you think designers or developers work like that.
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You say that, but it isn’t a minority in the feedback they are getting.
The get the same feedback here, as on Reddit, and Twitter.
You are making a guess it is a minority, but there is nothing in the feedback we see which suggests it is.
The is one of the biggest most consistent bits of feedback they get.
Again.
When all of your feedback says you have a problem. You have a problem. Ignoring that is just bad game design.
It also smashes the myth that Lucio has unreasonable survival, when he is dying on par with people who can’t even self heal, and above all other supports but Brig.
Im not saying that, its PROVEN given the numbers of players vs complaints lol.
Also the point is that literally those “feelings” are false. Again, stop making up scenarios and going off tangent:
It has been PROVEN that Supports not only dont die more often, but they are the ones with the best numbers survival wise 
Again with the false unsubstantiated claims.
Not only is not all feedback, but it is a tiny minority, giving feedback based on “feelings” and debunked by actual stats. You have no leg to stand on, sorry 
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Are you Blizzard developer? Because they do exactly same thing of hiding behind stats, when it comes to making enjoyable gameplay.
Or like medical joke:
Nurse comes to doctor and says “Sir, patient feels himself worse and worse”.
Doctor responds “No, patient only thinks, that he feels worse. It’s new method of looking at subjective feelings of patients.”
Next day nurse comes to doctor and says “Sir, patient thinks, that he is dead.”
I mean in fairness that par is almost exclusively tanks who all got huge buffs coming into OW2, but you’re right that he definitely doesn’t look good in comparison to the other supports now, despite his cockroach-like reputation.
And that kind of surprises me to be honest, as I would have thought that Lucio would fare better in push than 2CP. But it could just be that with heroes like Roadhog being meta it’s a lot harder for Lucio to sustain himself.
This thread is filled with so much nonsense. Hoping I get time to respond to it later.
3 Likes
Some people here are salty of what he is saying. He isn’t wrong though. Supports are actually the hardest kill.
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What? That is like saying “we gathered up the feedback from our players 90% of the feedback says one thing” - and then saying “I guess we can ignore it because it isn’t all of the player base”
That is beyond stupid, I can see you don’t run a business. Or do stats, or even much of anything which actually involves design.
I think it’s already best to go for dps sometimes lol. If the enemy has a mercy/kiriko isn’t it a waste of time to try and kill them? Might as well go for a fatter and slower dps. Bait a cooldown and at least they can be hit. Some of these supports have insane survivability.
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Please do so. You embarrass yourself every time you engage with anything to do with me lol
Again dude with the fake scenarios. What part are you not getting? You are making a claim that is false. Its not 90% of the feedback, its not real, its not based on anything but “feelings” and to top it off … it has been proven false.
Lets put it in bold and see if it sticks : Its NOT happening. Support survival is NOT an issue
Did you actually read the OP ?
Do you have any issues reading that above my dude?
Projecting 101. You literally are the one making up things my guy.
You clearly dont run anything because if you operate like that in this world, you would not be able to make any product ever
You have to know what the problem is to fix it. I’m not ignoring the problem of support feeling less impactful. Nowhere in this post or any other do you see me say support is fine and should be ignored. I’m saying that support survivability is ok and the numbers we had prove they are ok. The problem is the feeling of impact. DPS die far more often than support but feel more fun because the plays they make feel more impactful…basically because killing stuff is more fun. Support should be changed imo to be able to kill stuff better or enable their dps/tank to kill stuff better…or more utility basically. It’s proof here that simply not dying doesn’t make support fun. They already don’t die and the role is still not fun to many.
You REALLY can’t read can you. Let me lay it at your feet again.
They are getting a lot of feedback saying this is a problem that it feels bad.
And you are like “Who cares if it feels bad”
The answer is any game company with a clue does.
I’ve made a lot of very successful bits of software, because I understand the basics of design.
Something you just don’t have a clue about.
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This is very true. At the end of the day this is a game and it’s meant to be fun. Feelings are pretty much all that matter. But data can help paint a picture as to why players feel the way they do.
Agreed, but you can’t use data to dismiss what they are feeling, and that is what Hyphen is trying to do.
There is a problem, and the data is showing it is NOT deaths. But the data isn’t saying what it is.
Like it could be that they spend so much time (successfully) having to evade deaths and that isn’t fun.
It is like CC in OW1, tanks WERE tanking when they were soaking up large amounts of CC, yet they were saying “for the love of god, just let us play the game I can’t do my job here”
They were, but it felt awful. But the stats would show they in fact were doing MORE tanking when they were soaking CC, I mean, they had successfully drew agro, and were using up cooldowns on the enemy team.