I don’t think all support classes are deemed too easy, most supports have equal flaws to their advantages.
The reason people will point out a support being too strong before any other class is the fact the support can heal their allies, if a support can both heal their allies and very consistently either evade death or kill anyone who opposes them than what is the point of having a DPS that can’t heal?
Mercy, Brigitte, and Moira are too easy for the reward of playing them.
And if they make a mistake they are punished harder than almost every other hero.
wrong. low skill capped heroes means theres less mistakes that can possibly be made. which is why its so easy to play these dumb heroes that have ruined the meta.
I never mentioned making more or less mistakes. Please read my comments carefully. I said they are punished harder for their mistakes.
This post is ignorant but you’re preaching to the choir so I have to be realistic about how much arguing I’m willing to do.
If you’d like to know how ignorant you are, you can start by googling something like “Widowmaker angles”, or “peeking” or “peeker’s advantage”. Even if you don’t play her it’ll open your eyes to how precise her positioning needs to be. None of the supports need to be anywhere near as precise as that. That’s just to start with. Then there’s the ridiculous contention that DPS can just take another shot. You don’t even need to be in a high ranking to know how bull that is. Even in Gold if you play McCree you’re constantly going to be in situations where a single missed shot is the difference between killing Pharah or letting your team get wiped by Barrage.
You’ve communicated to me that you are too naive to be speaking about this. Now go ahead and check my profile - see what I play. I’m playing those heroes precisely because I’m not naive. I know what it actually takes to play DPS at a high level whereas you can only assume.
This is a long post and I will attempt to unpack it.
first off if you miss shots as a damage dealer it IS bad, “nothing happens” is false, you have not killed the enemy so they can continue killing others/healing others and doing the objective. It is also alot harder for say genji to miss damage compared to mercy with which it is almost impossible to “miss” your healing. If your damage dealers are landing less shots than the enemy then they can absolutely throw as they become useless, they can’t do there job to kill people so they become dead weight.
Have bad teamates on your team as a damage dealer does negatively affect you. If they arnt killing people then you have to be even better at killing people to make up for it, otherwise you will lose
Bridgette hitting me is not her “out playing” me, that could be true if it was hard for her to hit people but it is the complete opposite. “Just don’t go near her” is really not a solution, it really boils down to a support countering the thing that is ment to counter them (flankers) but also doing it in a way that gives the countered no chance to fight back besides just not playing the hero.
My friend, all you needed to say was one thing
Zenyatta
Zenyata is basically a DPS with a fire and forget healing ability.
Sorry Illinest, you’re too naive to know that you need to make your profile public before people can check it.
I play in the Masters SR bracket. I have maintained a Masters rank in competitive for 6 seasons in a row, and was Diamond before that. Though I am a support main, I can play all heroes in my SR bracket, including Widowmaker. I couldn’t expect you to know that before being told, but nevertheless your reply is just plain insulting. You’re using needlessly large words in an attempt to sound superior as you talk down to me, but your diction lacks the clarity required for effective communication. You have no reasonable basis upon which you have established any of your negative claims about me.
I honestly can’t tell if I’m even supposed to take you seriously, or if this is some kind of attempt at trolling. If you’re serious, then it seems that you’ve completely missed the point of my original post. The only reason I’m even replying to you is because you’re not the first person to get stuck on the wording of that particular paragraph. So, yet again, I am clarifying my original post for people who didn’t quite understand it.
I never said that missing shots as a damage dealer was fine, I said that when a damage dealer misses shots, nothing happens. If a damage dealer isn’t making something happen, they aren’t doing their job. However, damage dealers are punished less for missing shots than supports are punished for missing heals, because when a support misses a heal, someone dies. It’s possible that someone could die because a damage dealer missed a shot, but it’s still okay for damage dealers to miss the majority of their shots. That is why damage dealers can get away with sub-40% accuracy, while an Ana player must maintain better than 50% accuracy to make it worth bringing her in the support slot. In case you’re wondering, my own average is 64%.
Damage dealers are not always under pressure to make the shot, but making the shot against a target who doesn’t want you to hit them is difficult. A support’s core job is always performed under pressure, though, because the only time healing is useful is when your team is already taking damage. That is the primary message of my original post: supports are hard to play because while they are mechanically easier so they can avoid mistakes, when they do make mistakes it costs the team a lot more than a few missed shots from the damage dealers.
To everyone reading this… please, if you’ve gotten this far and you haven’t actually read the whole OP, go back and read it.
Most people would be correct in thinking that Brigitte deletes Tracer when she hits her, but if you think it’s easy for Brigitte to hit Tracer, you have never tried smacking a Masters+ Tracer main with your shield. It’s downright infuriating.
I realize that my perspective is skewed due to my high MMR/SR, but even as a support main I can pick up Tracer and dance around most Brigitte players 1v1 all day long. It requires a lot of patience, but it’s actually pretty easy to wear down her shield and kill her if you’re willing to spend the time doing it and you know what 6 meters looks like.
It’s actually very hard for Brigitte to hit anyone who doesn’t want to be hit. Every hero in the game has the option of turning around and walking away when Brigitte approaches them, and there’s nothing she can do about it except use whip shot to push them even further away.
As I mentioned in my OP, “just don’t go near her” is precisely the correct solution unless you are a tank. Reaper also deserves an honorable mention since he can easily overpower her so long as you can dodge the stun with wraith form, and McCree can flashbang/fan her to death when she has no external healing or Rally armor. If you find that you are not a tank, but you feel that you must be near the red Brigitte, you need to swap out for a tank, another Brigitte, or Reaper/McCree.
Like all healers, Brigitte’s consistency is one of her greatest assets, but simultaneously one of her most exploitable weaknesses. She is extremely predictable even when played well, and if you know her kit yourself, it’s very easy to play around her and very hard for her to surprise you. She’s also completely 100% helpless against a Pharah who has any idea what button means go up.
i may be a bit biased since i am a main tank player, but usually in the middle of a team fight, charge = certain death, as you will charge right into the enemy team (considering the brig is in front of you.) taking the brig with you or missing and dying because you’re over extended, and even if you charge a brig, if they have a zarya or mercy they will bubble the brig or res the brig, considering how mercy and zarya are both still in the meta, or if for some reason she’s behind you,
so “Charge her, you win!” is a pretty stupid statement to make, and charging the Rien will still cause a bubble or he will be healed up quickly by Brigitte’s “e” and Moira insane healing potential, or even if Zarya doesn’t bubble, a mercy could still res him while she’s bubbled, and the W + M1 tactic doesn’t work when the whole team sees a Rien without a shield and shoots him down, forcing him to put his shield back up and block the damage, of course your right in a 1v1 situation it’s just w + m1, but in a team situation when Zarya’s “e” is on cooldown and your stunned your just gonna die. he might of died to the whole team but that stun is what triggered the whole team on him, it’s like if a rien shattered and got a solid 4k and then the team finished them off, the team might of helped kill them but the rien is what gave them that opportunity to kill.
You are right that my advice to simply charge after shield bash is… well, oversimplified. However, it is still sound advice if you already know how to pull off the charge safely. Exhaustively describing the exact set of conditions in every scenario in which Reinhardt should charge is both difficult and would take more time than I am willing to give, but they would include having something nearby to charge Brigitte into, watching her and her allies’ cooldowns to time it right, and potentially asking your own team to support the effort with a Zarya bubble of your own.
I think only so much can actually be said about what makes for a safe charge, and the rest may need to come from practice and a player’s own intuition. The bottom line is that you need a plan to charge Brigitte before you engage her, because that is how Reinhardt can decisively win that matchup on his own.
I would give the same advice for a Reinhardt player against any enemy. Always be thinking about how you can get into position for a good charge, and use your shield as a tool to get you into that position. A good charge will pin your target against a wall that is in line of sight of the rest of your team, and the shorter the charge, the better. There’s still more to it than that, but those are the biggest issues.
playing supports is super easy and always was and always will.
I’m going to guess you didn’t read the whole original post, let alone the whole thread up until this point. I’m also guessing that you’ve not spent more than 20 hours playing any of the support heroes, or studying English grammar.
But I’m just guessing. I could be wrong. Though… if supports are so super easy, why aren’t you proudly showing off the GM rank you earned by playing one? After all, if they’re that easy, then any simpleton should be able to climb the ladder with them.
You say that it is easier to hit your teammates; however, I honestly feel as though I have more consistency with Widow accuracy than Ana’s. It all comes down to “being in” the engagement. I can see where they move, I know where I shot and can anticipate where they might go to dodge, or I have the element of surprise. In the case of Ana, I have to just sort of guess what is going on while they are engaged with an enemy. I do not know, it is harder for me because if you miss a few shots with Widow, you take a deep breath, compose yourself, and start landing again. If you miss a few with Ana, they are just dead. As you later mention.
Time to derail the thread a bit with some anecdotal experience playing Reinhardt.
A while back, I decided to try maining the German shield and hammer tank. One match in particular, I kept dying first in every team fight. I started getting upset and berating my team, but I didn’t realize that the team was slowly winning the fight after all my deaths.
Each time I came back from respawn, our team had a slight advantage. Eventually we overcame our opponents and won the game.
Several months later, I came across a interview on YT with Muma. He said something that stuck because it aligned with the game I mentioned. When he tanks, he doesn’t mind dying first, because it means his teammates haven’t died yet.
oof risky post . . .
You make really good points in this post. There will definitely be an adjustment period.
Also, I agree with your OP. And I wish people would take the time to actually read it because you are in no way saying supports need special attention or are the most important part of the game. You are correct in essentially saying that playing support can be just as challenging as any other role. The challenges are just different.
Thanks for allowing me the chance to think about this from a different angle, OP. And this is coming from a support main.
I think this applies to any character. I like it when people come back to me for heals because it generally keeps them out of the line of fire so that you can get them back out there more safely.
I had a Hanzo in one of my matches that was on a ledge that would come down and stand next to me when he was low if I was too focused on the people holding the choke point. Others have done the same. It really can help a lot.