That’s definitely an issue. It’s one of the more subtle difficulties of healing. Right after the Mercy rework when she was actually on every team in every game, she could resurrect multiple people in a row. After she got nerfed, the was a noticeable time period during which people took wild risks even at high ranks because they were used to getting resurrected. And, of course, they would blame the healer for losing.
I think the same thing is going to happen again if the Mercy healing nerf goes through to live as-is. People will be used to having 20% more healing, will take appropriate risks for getting 60 hp/sec when they have Mercy, will die, and blame the healer.
The Mercy rework also made it more difficult to play the other healers, because people forgot how to play with them after getting used to always having Mercy.
On one hand, it’s awesome that so many more people will give Mercy a guardian angel target as she’s coming out of spawn now, but people have forgotten how to take cover and hold still so Ana can make use of her much stronger healing. They’ve forgotten that they need to move more slowy because they will quickly leave their healer behind when it’s not Mercy.
Moira is called easy fairly often, but for the most part, people do respect the effort it takes to balance out your healing and damage so that your team is always being healed. Brigitte and Mercy get the most flak for being easy imo.
But I’ve literally never seen anyone call Ana, Lucio or Zenyatta “easy”, outside of doing it out of impulse while raging, though the same people who do that are the same people who call lag or luckshot when they die, but insist that their kills are skillful.
Yeah, as a healer I noticed how allies became far more agressive and careless. Especially when mercy could rez twice during valk. I played extremely careless as Mercy because it was so easy to rez and run without dying and if my ally died again, well I’ll just rez him again.
Even then, Moira and Brig are easy for a reason. They were designed to be effective against highly mobile heroes who preyed on Supports and had little answer themselves, and realistically, the only way you can design a hero to be effective against mobility is to have “easy” aim abilities.
Brigitte and Moira were alternatives to nerfing heroes like Tracer and Genji into the ground.
Supports are too easy, to be easy to fill. Compare to tf2 medic, they easier, more casually. Compare to Moba, much more easier. I tried grandpa from diablo in hots, and throw potions is really hard. Supports for casuals, case closed. Otherwise - "No one wanna play hard support mentally "
Everybody who has played with a bad support, and there are a lot of bad support players out there, knows that there is skill required to play the role. The argument that playing support is for “casuals” (be careful when you throw that term around kids) come from the false idea that the skills required to DPS effectively are the only skills that matter in the game. Even the people who make that argument know this deep down, as when you ask them to switch to a healer you get “I can’t play Mercy”.
Not only dps, tanks require skill too, supports are bound by their “easy to pick up”. Staying alive is not individual skill, you just can’t compate with tank or dps mobility. You predict their movement, but they are humans too ))
Alright, explain this to me then. Yesterday i was rein, playing with the zarya brig hanzo comp, my enemy does the same. I’m on offense, walking towards the payload, which, surprise surprise, means i have to be in the brigs 6 meters. I walk, forward, zarya bubbles me to block their brig bash, great. We brawl a bit, get some ult charge, then i get bashed, their rein gets bubbled, and i get charged. How can i outplay that? Our zarya already protected me, brigs cooldown is just lower than her bubble, so it hit. Even if she mistimed it, their rein was bubbled, so our brig couldn’t help me by stopping his charge. And her stun went through my shield. I was completely helpless there. If i get stunned by mccree or ana dart, its because i didn’t put my shield in the right place, but brig literally makes rein useless in most situations like that. How do i outplay her bashing through my shield?
Well, firstly, it sounds like you got out-played by a whole team, not just Brigitte. That said, I can explain how to out-play them in that exact scenario.
You said that Zarya bubbled you to block the first bash from Brigitte. Great! Now that her stun is gone, you are a 500hp freight train standing next to a 250hp flyswatter. Charge her. You win!
Reinhardt will easily one-shot a Brigitte who can’t stun. If for some reason you feel that you can’t charge the Brigitte because of your position, charge her Reinhardt instead. Both of them are easy targets while they are close range. Their Zarya may bubble your charge target, but your damage dealers should be able to focus down your charge target anyway so long as you didn’t engage without them behind you.
It’s a team game. Sometimes your team won’t follow up, but there are absolutely options for Reinhardt to outplay Brigitte. In a true 1v1 situation, all he has to do to win against her is hold down W + M1.
IMO, as a flex support player, i think when people say something like this they are talking about the main healer role. Like the moiras and mercys… That is super easy compared to the other roles but if you try to play zenyatta or ana you will quickly find out that it is indeed not easy. They also keep adding new no aim, self healing supports who destroy heroes who take lots of skill, so that might also be a reason people dont really respect support players. When i get destroyed by a zen, lucio, or ana i feel like i deserved it and they got the best of me. When I get my pick rezzed or start getting sucked off by moira orbs, it just doesnt feel right to me. It feels like you have to work so much harder than that dude who just pressed E and had the biggest impact on the match… (mercy)
I think you’re missing the point of my comment. Yes, in a 1v1 rein wins, but, im addressing how he said that if you’re getting rekt by brig, its because she outplayed you. I’m 100% dependent on my team to kill or help me kill brig as rein. In that situation, if i charge, i die. I’m just a human pinball to the enemy team. And her “6m” range, is also rein’s range. If you want her to counter flankers fine, but why the hell does she hard counter rein too?
I think a lot of people’s problems with Brigitte stem from not understanding that she’s basically the same character as Reinhardt - you should interact with her as such. She just trades some damage for healing. Brig, Rein and Orisa are the only true tanks in the game. You could make a case for Mei, but she would need a bigger model and some numerical adjustments for me to classify her as a tank. (I’m okay saying Winston, Hammond and D.Va count as tanks in Overwatch, just because their mobility sort of works as peel/disruption given the fast pace of the game.)
Anyway… Brig vs Rein is basically a Rein mirror match that comes down to who uses their stun at the right time. Now, they’ve stated they need to fix how a lot of their charge ability collisions work so the behavior is more consistent (so I’d expect Shield Bash vs Charge to work like Charge vs Charge in the future). Thus, Brig does have a slight advantage right now, but that’s not really intended design, as I understand it.
That scenario is two tanks (Rein + Brig) vs one tank and one bruiser (Rein + Zarya). Given that the fight was in melee range, I think the two tanks winning was probably the right outcome. But I dunno. Tough call.
That’s a dumb statement. Healers are no more egotistical than Dp’s or Tanks. Their ego is based on their role. DPs feel like they are the MVP and will carry the match, Tanks think they are the MVP because without them you squishies wouldn’t live to do any dmg, and healers are along the same lines as tank as they keep the fight going giving you more of a fighting chance.
This whole supports are entitled really looks like dps feel entitled and how dare anyone else feel important if they don’t deal damage.
I didn’t miss your point at all. I responded directly to the 6v6 scenario that you presented, and only provided a comment about 1v1 as a side note. You’re definitely not 100% dependent on your team to kill or help you kill brig as rein. I already told you how to solve the problem on your own in a team situation in my last post.
Wait for shield bash. This is the key. It only does 50 damage. Take it like a giant man in heavy armor.
Charge her.
You have now out-played the Brigitte.
You claim that if you use charge at any time, you die, but that’s definitely not true. You die if you charge while Brigitte has the ability to stun you. If you play around her cooldowns, you don’t get stunned during charge, and then you don’t die.
Your opponents in this situation that you described showed you yet another way to play that scenario. You were up against a mirror comp. You should learn from them. My method of waiting for the shield bash works with or without a friendly Zarya, but when you have a Zarya bubble on you, then like the enemy Reinhardt, you should charge. You said Zarya bubbled you against Brigitte’s shield bash. Why did you not immediately go full aggro while you had protection?
Be careful how you use charge, but don’t be afraid of it. A good Reinhardt will hold their shield up for their team, but they will also absolutely abuse charge as much as possible when it is the right time to do it.
Lastly, you’re referring to the OP as a 3rd party here: