If that was true youd be advocating for them to nerf dive asap.
Brig is a symptom of the actual problem which is dive locking out every other support from being viable. Why else do you think brig and juno are being played when both have ways to deal with someone diving on top of them.
Try playing ana or zen and see how far you get before inevitably having to swap to a hero like brig. How many times you gonna get deleted by a dva or spawncamped by perma invis sombra before you bite the bullet and lock the mace
Is that a brig problem? Or is that more an oppressive meta limiting viable options problem?
This is what happens EVERY TIME dive is good. The only supports that see play are the ones who can survive the best into it.
Ie. Brig. And shes not even that amazing into it since season 9. A good dive hero can run circles around her because she no longer has any offensive threat with the hp increases plus the dps passive makes her a wet noodle vs good dps players.
She USED to actually be a threat to flankers because she was both hard to kill and had good ways to force them away. But since season 9 that has completely changed. The dps passive makes her way less tanky when dueling a flanker. They can really easily melt her with her not able to heal as much.
Additionally the extra health + global heal passive means heroes like tracer sombra genji no longer have to run away and get a health pack if they take a whip to the face. Not only do they have more hp to tank it, they can just wait a couple seconds and it auto heals. So they never have to leave a flank and reset, they are able to just sit there, poke damage to reset the dps passive and stop the support passive kicking in while rehealing themselves to full
Which Supports get picked depends on the meta that is the most successful at the moment. Brig and Juno do not dictate the meta, they just work the best in this meta and majority of the Supports like Mercy, LW, Moira, Illari are not good.
Man who would have thought S9 would cause so many issues lmfao, but nothing we can do because if you make Dps have to have skill and work for their kills we will just have to listen to " All the Support is Op because they can kill me with my crap aim and poor positioning"
I think in this case brig Juno do dictate the meta. It’s not tank
Brig has always been a strange support due to the fact that she’s very similar to a tank in the sense she can be enabled.
Brig almost needs the same environment rein does to be successful.
Her downside is she can be ran over by brawl tanks. So without speed she did best against tanks that couldn’t brawl and there was a wait and punish approach. Now that’s changed
She benefits from SPEED and a POCKET. Hence the pairing with Ana (pocket). Now you can have high healing, the pocket, and speed.
Armor had been buffed and buffed.
With speed she can disengage.
It’s very much like a roadhog situation when Kiriko was introduced.
A hero was released that completely and entirely enables brig without the downsides Lucio has.
Now Juno may be op as well. But we have to recognize that a new support brings new problems or has the ability to enable things that could not be enabled before.
I think you got it backwards. Brig is generally used to pocket a support before this meta, not using another support to pocket brig. She makes it so that heroes that die automatically to dive can be played.
Which is why current meta is strange, cuz Juno usually takes brig’s spot, not play alongside it. This generally indicates that even with brig pocket, supports that die to dive without her will still die even with her peels, hence why juno takes their spot as she too won’t get dove and murdered immediately.
This meta basically is, as indicated, “supports live or lose” but pushed to 11 in difficulty.
Even before the last patch, it’s already a meta of trading supports cuz juno doesn’t provide any peel to the ana played along with her. The dvas when their ana get dove almost never go peel, they go into opponent backline and trade ana/ashe instead. That should say enough about how horrible the meta is.
I love how losers like OP dont waste any time before claiming supports are OP despite being just collateral picks to an ongoing dive meta because that could mean that putting the blame on Dva/Tracer/Widow and we cant have that.
The most common tank today on OWCS was Orisa. There was some D.Va and Winston being played but also Ram and even some Mauga. There was a match with Doom. And yesterday on the Asian circuit was a lot of JunkerQueen and Orisa. Overall between the last 2 days the most common tank was Orisa though. But still Juno/Brig every game.
I like Juno and Brig. I don’t really want to see either nerfed. But they are not just being used in dive. Not even close. And the pro meta right now isn’t dive. I don’t think we balance around the pro meta either, but Juno/Brig is meta in top 500 and the pro scene both currently.
As much as it pains me to say this, I do think the problem might be Juno. But I really LOVE playing Juno so I’m biased and don’t want her nerfed. Still I think she’s the reason.
How often are you actually seeing Juno Brig? I’m masters console, so a different platform and rank always contribute, but things usually permeate when they are strong enough. Imma be real here, I hardly ever see this comp. And anyways, it doesn’t feel particularly frustrating to play against when I have seen it. No hard cc (only brig ult, but that’s whatever) or immortality abilities. It’s feels like a pretty ethical support line.
I know. I mentioned you don’t balance around pro play. But Juno/Brig is being used at every level of ranked and in pro-play and dive is not meta everywhere. It’s falling out of favor even at the top level of the ladder and is already not meta on the pro scene. This isn’t a situation where it’s a symptom of dive or those things wouldn’t be true.
If that is so, which I seriously doubt without real info, its mostly because Tracer and dive heroes in general are all the meta from bronze to GM, even if people arent actually playing in a coordinate 1v5 forcing dive comp.
The only reliable data source we have available says that Brig is nowhere near meta and is in fact the least played support in low ranks.
Its almost as if both heroes are only played in coordinated Dive meta, which doesnt exist for most of the playerbase.
The OWCS stream is on right now if you want to check it out. And yesterday’s stream is up on YouTube. There’s no solid way to get real data on ranked other than to talk to players and people you know. I’m seeing a lot less dive personally. And a lot of the game screenshots I’m seeing have less dive. The top 500 board was so dive heavy before mid-season that it might not have had time to really change that much. Mid-season was also not early this time like last time. Even Overbuff which is notoriously unreliable needs a full month after a patch to truly reflect a change.
But dive is definitely on a decline after this last patch from all the anecdotal evidence I’m seeing. I do not think it’s accurate to say we are currently in a dive meta.
No other support benefits from speed in the same way brig does.
For example can you think of another support you would want to speed INTO the enemy besides brig.
With speed she ends up with %100 inspire uptime and she doesn’t have to sit and flail really.
This is very much so a roadhog suzu situation. Brig finally got a hero that can max enable her.
Also when it comes to pro play and ladder…. If something is hard to execute…. It will only exist in pro play. If it’s both easy to execute and strong… it will spread to every rank on the ladder…. There’s no excuse to not play it.
Given that speed ring is the limiting factor for max brig… and it’s not an ability you have to aim…. This combo is so easy to execute.
I don’t know if I would go that far. I do think Juno Brig is definitely the meta right now, but it’s still a far cry from the uber sustain meta of Goats. Now, add in some Venture and some Mei with maybe an Orisa as tank and you’re getting closer. But from what I can tell the DPS and tank metas are more in flux right now. The only thing stabilized is the support meta.
As someone pointed out. Brawl tanks are starting to cycle in with the brig/juno meta…
Last time we saw brig being ran with brawl was GOATS. Due to %100 inspire uptime being too strong to kill anything through. Mandating a heavier hitting tank.
When brig is no longer limited to baby sitting and waiting for aggression…. Inspire turns into a different monster.
She goes from having the possibility to proc inspire once every 4 seconds (with flail) unless enemy dives…. To having %100 inspire uptime guaranteed without having to land flails.
Again this is very much so a Kiriko/hog situation.
as flats said while doing his tier list, you run Rein Ven and Mei together, if you add the Brig/Juno combo to it you just stick together and roll people.
