Am I the only one thinking that Supports do genuinely way too much damage? Brigitte for example does way too much damage Blocks ults like Reaper and Cassidy’s and has heals that are completely fine at the same damn time.
3 Likes
In lobbies with incompitent DPS – yes, but in other cases no. Also DPS usually have a burst damage which provides half of kill in the match. Supports haven’t burst damage, except Zen, yeah. Also DPS completely freedom about damage dealing, while supports should decide heal or damage
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This community deluded itself into thing the game “ had way too much healing” because trash dps players couldn’t kill through healing values on average 1/3 of damage values. (Marvel rivals has healing numbers vastly eclipsing overwatch and they have no issues- it’s a skill issue to be unable to kill through mercy or lifeweaver healing)
So the dps passive introduced free value that so heavily nerfs supportive capability that (alongside bullet size increases) that the common sense and tactically advantageous strategy for supports is to now just… deal damage.
So you’re being shot at by supports 10x as much before because the dps passive ruined their ability to support via healing.
And now the game sucks for dps and support both. And if support can’t turn a fight with healing, they HAVE to be able to kill to justify being in the game at all.
18 Likes
Bridgette needs those damage blocks in trade on how slow she is, also her shield doesn’t do too much because it breaks really easily and even her heals suffer because of how slow it is and how she needs to do damage (which may or may not be a problem)
2 Likes
Overwatch 2 helped and Season 9 cemented healers no longer just being allowed to heal, and in general most meta healers are only ones that can duel, and its definitely tiring, but somewhat understandable.
In general I just dont think Kiriko should exist. Remove her and I wont care about Bap, Illari, and other duelist supports. Its GENUINELY just Kiriko that needs gone, shes easily the worst designed hero in the game by far.
1 Like
Support damage, Tank damage, and Damage-role damage are all competitive with each other. Meaning that, most of them will average out roughly the same total damage levels.
The main thing that players get (rightly) tripped up on, is how much easier it is for Supports to deal damage compared to the Damage-role. Likewise, the Tank-role also as a much easier time to apply their damage over the Damage-role.
If Brigitte is hitting something, and Mercy comes by and heals that someone getting bashed by Brigitte, Brigitte’s damage will hit net-zero; she will do no damage against Mercy’s healing. That’s how low Brigitte’s damage is.
But if you’re playing Brigitte and bashing Cassidy, you’re probably going to win that fight, because Cassidy still has to aim and hit you, whereas Brigitte does not require much aim at all.
This is the case with many Support vs. Damage-role heroes. This is because OW1 was originally balanced around the concept of Offense Heroes (Cassidy, Genji, Soldier, Tracer) against Defense heroes (Torbjorn, Junkrat, Mei, Hanzo) and not against heroes like Tanks or Supports.
Tanks and Supports were designed to be more generalized and not specifically countered by other heroes in other roles. Those templates have not changed since OW1 launched and remain true even today.
Not every Damage-role has burst damage. There are several Supports who do have burst-damage; it’s not limited to just Zenyatta. Juno, for example, has some burst damage in the form of Pulsar Torpedoes. Brigitte has Whipshot, and Wuyang’s charged primaries operate as a kind of burst-damage (on top of Guardian Wave).
Healing was designed as changing up a 1v1 into a 1v2. Healing in Overwatch does not miss (in general). It is much easier to heal a target than it is to deal damage. And dealing damage as a Damage-role is still harder to do than dealing damage as a Support.
Compare Moira’s 0.7 width infinite ammo beam of 65 damage per second, against Cassidy’s 0.07 width 75 damage shots. Keep in mind that Moira also heals 30 healing per second while dealing damage.
Triple Support is a thing in Marvel Rivals. Duelists in Marvel Rivals also have an easier time landing shots against their targets compared to Damage-role heroes; healing in Marvel Rivals also has a greater chance of missing than in Overwatch.
There’s also less burst damage in Marvel Rivals; everything in that game is more about sustained damage than burst damage.
No. They do the damage they do because none of y’all peel for them, so the devs had to make sure they could fend for themselves. If we reduced their damage, you would just complain that they cannot live and don’t heal enough while still providing them zero peel.
Support ≠ healer. I can support you by killing your enemy or by increasing your speed of killing your enemy. With 0 heal.
8 Likes
The enemy can’t deal damage if they’re dead. With the DPS passive and super high burst back in the game, the lower healing output supports are genuinely more useful if we’re getting kills.
The enemy can’t damage my team if they’re dead.
3 Likes
Their damage is reduced, it’s just easier to do.
Lucio fires a round of four shots at 20 damage per shot for 80 damage. Genji fires a round of three shots at 27 damage per shot for 81 damage. Both have the same firing speed, critical hit modifier. Genji has more ammo, than Lucio, but Lucio’s projectiles are almost twice the size of Genji’s shuriken (0.22 vs. 0.125).
“Super high burst damage” never left and was never “super high”.
No? If they couldn’t do any damage, they wouldn’t be able to defend themselves at all. The whole reason supports are as strong as they are now is exclusively because of how easy it was for dps to gank them.
If not, they would be nothing more than basic healbots. Then no one would want to play support, which would have 100% ruined queue times.
Opens thread expecting to see complaints about DPS Moira, Lucio, or maybe Kiri
Reads nonsense about Brig(?!?!) doing too much damage and being able to block ults with a stun that she only has on her ultimate.
Huh… This is an even dumber version of this type of complaint thread. And that’s really saying something.
3 Likes
Right after the S9 changes, TTK was higher.
Prior to that, it was easily possible to be taken from 100 → 0 in less than a second.
We’re getting back to that again.
If you have a problem with Supports doing too much damage, just kill them.
1 Like
i dont think so since i am pretty sure if we could see averages for heroes then i dont think the supports would do MORE damage than a dps hero
one of the reasons i loved overbuff is that it would show avarage damage for all the heroes
blizzard/activision/microsoft stats page IS REALLY LACKING…
a third party site did better than them. still i think blizzard/activision/microsoft kinda likes the transparency
You can thank 5v5 for this. Back when OW2 first came out, the lack of second tank made support players’ lives very difficult, so they had to buff the crap out of their dueling abilities.
DPS players really want every support to be like Mercy. Just exist to heal and do nothing else.
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The irony is that it also simultaneously makes support spend even more time healing when they do try to heal.
So some players turn more to damage because of the DPS passive, and some become even more entrenched in being a healbot.
The DPS passive is a failure of a mechanic.
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Then there are people who play Lucio. You can heal WHILE doing damage. In fact, you should be. Heck, your biggest utility isn’t even related to healing (speed boost).
i think supports should be able to defend themselves but yea… they should NOT have equal damage/burst to a damage dealer
i think wuyang was close thats why he got nerfed? i wonder if he is the most damage hero atm? maybe its illari now with the recent buffs and why her win rate is high… who knows. like i said i wish we had a stats page
but i really doubt supports do more than damage dealers on average. maybe some do more than the worst dps tho lol…