Support DO NOT need changed

This is a proper reorganized response to that one thread about supports sucking and needing to be changed. I said my two-cents there already, but I really need to clarify. If you think that’s a better take, go like that guy’s post, but I’ll still be here.

Okay.
Let’s start with considering the accusation.
Supports desperately need a change, do they?

Then the question is why?
Is it because of queue times?
Is there something inherently unfun about playing support?
Do they truly need a rework?

I’d absolutely say no.

But even if they did, what could they do?
No matter what they do, there is absolutely no way they can fix whatever problems with a rework or balance change.
Do you really think if they did some huge overhaul to supports that it would rebalance queue times?
People just don’t like playing support.
There will ALWAYS be less of a demand for support players. ALWAYS.
If you REALLY think it’s possible to have something even relatively close to a 20-40-40 queue ratio, quit kidding yourself, ya moron.
Support has never been as popular as damage dealing
and it NEVER WILL.
People would rather kill stuff than heal the team.
I know I would.
I play a bunch of Moira just to cover for my incompetent DPS players.
You don’t see epic clips on montages where Mercy carries their team by keeping them topped off.
Do you?
The appeal of the imposing tanks and the lethal DPS is not as intriguing as the satisfaction of knowing that
YOU,
as a support,
have won this game
because YOU
were the reason
that YOUR team was alive.
That sounds great to me!
But even so…
I’d rather get a 5k with a Rip-Tire.
Those feel like heaven.
As a support player, I realize the role isn’t popular.
I realize things would change if people stopped queueing for Tank and Damage.
But I also realize that
THAT.
IS NOT.
HAPPENING.

Are supports not fun?
Is that the issue with them?
Or, again, is it that you get more of a feeling of fun getting epic 4 mans with your Death Blossom than prevent your team from dying with a well-coordinated Immortality Field?
To all of the quote-unquote support mains who are getting tired of the role, I’m sorry that you’re in such a support slump, but your feelings might just be due to the accumulating bitterness towards the game.
I for one, over the years, have gone from being a tank main, to a damage main, to now a support main.
I’m currently having the time of my life playing support.
Each and every one of them is well-designed and fun to play. (Mercy is extremely fun, like holy cow)
And plenty of people agree with me on that fact. As too are there plenty of people who disagree with me.
We are getting new players, and plenty of them are blossoming into great support mains.
I’m sure there’s a couple of support players, your Lucio one-tricks, that you watch on Twitch or YouTube.
In the end, one’s perception of “fun” is completely subjective.

But even if they aren’t fun, surely the Overwatch team should change them in order to satisfy the bulk of the fanbase.
It’s important that every hero is appealing to the players and
clearly
they are not.
Actions must be done!
The support class obviously needs a rework. But…
how do we even do that?
Is a rework possible?
Is it necessary?
What can we do?

How about we give them more healing!
No… the last thing we want are a bunch of broken healbots…

We should give them more damage; then they can win even more 1v1s!
No… that’s hardly a problem… We raise the health of damage output of these folks, we’ll have another Mace to the Face problem. Every team will have the same supports and the ones who don’t will lose. (Or the players will just give up and think they’ll lose. ಠ_ಠ)

Maybe we could have supports that provide support in other ways than healing!
No… do we really want that? Imagine if the old Sym was in the support role. And she was on your team. You don’t want that.

Ooh!
I’ve got it!
Instead of having two supports, we could have one mega- WHO AM I KIDDING?!
I don’t think people realize how convenient the change from 2 to 1 tank was for both the dev team and the players.

It’s not as easy to rework supports like they did with tanks.
It may be impossible.
I mean that.

So maybe it’s just the individuals in the support roster. Let’s see…

Ana’s fine.
Bap’s fine.
Brig’s better than ever… Fine.
Kiriko… we’ll put a pin in her. Broken ult, but otherwise fine.
Lucio’s fine.
Moira’s fine. Suck it up before she sucks you. >:]
Mercy: “I used to be able to do this cool exploit where I could jump straight up really high in the air but now ANYBODY can do it in ANY direction and now I’m not as special. :(” Shaddap. Mercy’s the best she’s ever been. She’s fine.
Zen’s funny :)… and also fine.

They can heal.
They can kill. (Not really Mercy, but that’s not her job.)
They can… utility?

No issues with the support heroes… wait… what needs reworked again?

What could REALLY be done to rework the roster?
If you’ve got any ideas on how to “fix” the support role, be sure to say something.
Give them a speed increase and see how you feel dealing with a Moira fading onto your rump.
And will whatever change you make fix the problems with queues?
Will it satisfy your one-note definition of fun?
Step away from the screen, go into your bathroom, look at yourself in the mirror, and tell yourself…
“The queue times would be fixed if we just changed supports.” like you mean it.

Sometimes I don’t even think the community knows what it wants.

So… what can be done to fix queue times and interest in support?
Well… not too much regarding numbers and reworks,
but they’re already doing a few things right.

First of all, giving extra Battle Pass XP for the least popular role is good motivation.

Second of all, they’re adding more supports. That’s all we really need, right?

And finally,
one thing we can all do
is to take a deep breath,
put on your best attitude
and your biggest smile
and play a game of support.
Who knows?
You might just suddenly click with Mercy.

Just in general, we need to stop making lame-as excuses.
Supports do not need changed.

EDIT: tl;dr Balance changes aren’t going to fix queue times, but there are definitely other things they can do. About 40 comments in and we’re finally getting some good ideas in here.

8 Likes

This post seems like a skill diff.

27 Likes

People said the same thing about Tank in OW1 and said 5v5 tank reworks wouldn’t make them more desireable. They were wrong and now tanks are insanely popular and the queue is congested. Imagine that.

I do all the time on Twitter and Youtube. Mercy is one of the most popular heroes in the game and there are some very popular Mercy-only youtubers and streamers who get tons of views. Lots of us love watching high level gameplay and compliations of her.

So they shouldn’t even try? Rofl? They should just let the queues be terrible?

Of course not.

Ml7’s ideas are great. Lower the CDs of support abilities, make them a bit less strong to compensate. More active and engaging gameplay and less punishing feeling.

Is this a joke? roflll

Too bad. They are getting changes. Buff and reworks. Cope.

30 Likes

The reworks isn’t what made them more popular, it’s that they’re absurdly overpowered now.

6 Likes

Of course they don’t need to be changed. They aren’t babies!

Well I disagree and agree

The reworks made a lot of them more engaging and DPS-y which has a wider appeal to the general playerbase than pure defensive playstyles did

Also, being powerful tends to be fun, yeah. Supports could use the same.

2 Likes

It’s very possible if you let go of the idea that they gotta balance 5v5 Role Queue, like it’s 6v6 Open Queue.

There’s no specific gameplay reason that Support’s can’t have more overall value than DPS, other than people spamming buzzwords that bottomline to “I subjectively don’t like it”. Often acting like rotating between multiple words with that same meaning actually clarifies and justifies their opinion.

5 Likes

1.No more off tank to throw. So you no longer need someone competent to rotate with
2. Stronger kits
3. More likely to always get healed first
4.Much more self reliant

Thats pretty much everything making them more played rn.

I dont disagree that they’re more fun to play, but those reworks arent the reason for the queue times. The most played tanks (including meta tanks) right now are ones that had very few changes from OW. Zarya, Monkey, Hog, Dva. Orisa and Doom, the two with the most significant reworks, are generally considered pretty meh.

On top of that, they made the queue half the size of OW1 (there is only one tank per team instead of two). So that is going to play a much larger role in the queue congestion.

My guy you could have just said I’m happy with the status quo and saved yourself 10-20 minutes of essay writing.

You are fundamentally wrong though. Supports, or the gameplay experience of playing supports, needs to be shifted. Either that or the game will die to queue times.

OW2 is shiny and new right now, so it’s getting by. What % of the playerbase the game has acquired do you suppose will still be willing to tolerate either a unsatisfying playing experience (support players) or long queue times (DPS/Tank) 12 months from now.

Is this an easy problem to fix? No. Are supports balanced right now? Mostly. This doesn’t change the fact they are not the role people are remotely interested in by a wide margin.

Either the OW team finds a way to solve that issue or be prepared from OW3, 1-2-1.

19 Likes

ok Genji

1 Like

Good grief, the Blizzard defenders are not doing well, are they? The level of manic rambling in defense of this game has gotten absurd.

5 Likes

Counterpoint:

The ones you just listed as being most popular are some of the most aggro/DPSy tanks and the balance changes they DID get made them tanky enough to be able to go be aggressive and make offensive plays without getting melted instantly

Doom and JQ are bad yes, but Doom was super popular in Beta 1 before all his nerfs and we all know how popular JQ was in beta 2 before all her nerfs, so that’s more of a them being weak issue IMO

But I get what you mean

Very fair point

4 Likes

I guess that plays a bit into my point, though - those heroes were played because of their strength, not due to their reworks/fun level :slight_smile:

No, they got rid of almost everything that made tanking, and Overwatch generally, miserable (with some exception): shields, stuns, and boops. Even now they’re not as popular as damage, we just need one tank player for every two damage players.

By giving supports the consistent damage and pressure of damage heroes, you remove the need for damage heroes in the first place.

This post reeks of not knowing what you’re talking about but go off

2 Likes

Luckily for damage players there’s something called 1-2-2 ensuring no role will ever be discluded from games/metas again :slight_smile:

Because by your logic, making tanks into beefier DPS removes the need for damage heroes in the first place.

But luckily role queue ensures it didn’t, while letting Tanks be fun and impactful too :slight_smile:

2 Likes

Yes, but if supports are just damage heroes that can do everything a damage hero can do, and also support, why would the devs bother making damage heroes? They would be worse, and redundant.

They aren’t.

1 Like

Support more than ever are brutally targetted in OW2 due to the many map flanking changes and the lack of shields and a tank, and the uberization of the main tank.

Countless support have complained, say they play less, or they choose “bad picks” because they favour the survivability.

So even if stronger support didn’t draw people away from other roles (which is rubbish imo but whatever) fixing those issues will have more support playing and will have support playing stronger support characters.

It’s difficult for them to give support straight up more dps ability, because what you’ll end up with is tanks/dps abusing the support queue to get a quick dps fix. But they can add survivability, be it movement, stuns, knockbacks, escapes, invluns, anything that address survivability.

Imaging an over the top change where support were given tank health. Suddenly dps flanking to take out a support isn’t as viable. it would take too long and they’re squishy and a well coordinated team will punish them, or even a support with decent aim on their damage will win the fight. But pressuring support will remain the viable strategy becuase it distracts them from healing and allows a team dps or tank pic while they are distracted. Throw in escapes and the same is true.

There are things they can and should do.

1 Like

I guess enjoy the current support experience then OP. I’ll be switching over to the tank queue and enjoying Ramattra. At least I know I’ll have an impact in the fight with him.