Support changes to the whole cast i'd like to see

General Discussion
1

Lemme preface that this is taking into consideration their recent statement, that being that they want to bring some of the other supports more in line with how Kiriko is.

Though i for one think shes still a bit much, so i’d like for them to reduce some of her opressive power first.

Kiriko

Kiriko

  • Protection Suzu
    Healing reduced from 50 to 20
    Invulnerability time reduced from 0.85s to 0.75s

  • Kunai
    Projectile speed increased from 90m/s to 100m/s

Ana

Ana

  • Biotic Grenade
    Debuff duration recuced from 4s to 3s, again.
  • Sleep Dart
    Cooldown reduced from 14 to 12s
    Minimum sleep/stun duration reduced from 1.5s to 1s
    Maximum sleep duration reduced from 5 to 4s
Baptiste

Baptiste

  • Immortality Field
    Cooldown reduced from 25s to 15s
    Duration reduced from 5 to 3s
    Area of effect radius reduced from 6.5m to 5m
    Generator HP reduced from 150 to 100

  • Regenerative Burst
    Instant healing reduced from 50 to 40
    Healing overtime duration reduced from 50 to 40, healing per second remains the same.

  • Exo boots.
    Charges 20% faster.

Brigitte

Brigitte

  • Rally
    (Insert whatever they are cooking up, since its already pretty much finalized)

  • Shield Bash
    Now has two charges
    Cooldown increased from 5 to 6s
    Damage reduced from 50 to 30

  • Inspire
    Duration reduced from 5 to 4s

Lúcio

Lúcio

  • Sound Barrier
    Total Overhealth given reduced from 750 to 600.
    Ultimate cost increased by around 8%
  • Crossfade
    Area of effect radius reduced from 12m to 10m
    Speed boost effect no longer affects recently spawned allies or at round start, for 10 seconds.
  • Wall ride
    Speed boost granted increased from 30% to 40%
Mercy

Mercy

  • Caduceus Blaster
    Ammo increased from 25 to 30

  • Guardian Angel
    On use now boosts Caduceus Staff’s healing output and damage boost to 60HP/S and 30% respectively for 2.5s
    Also increases Mercy’s own damage output by 25%.

  • Caduceus Staff
    Primary Fire: Healing per second decreased from 55 to 50
    Alternate fire: Damage boosting decreased from 30 to 25%

  • Resurrect
    Cooldown decreased from 30s to 15s
    Allies now ressurect with 50% max HP and a 4 second debuff of 20% decreased damage dealt.

  • Valkyrie
    Ultimate cost decreased by 12%

(In all honesty, i think the best and maybe only good way to change Mercy is to interchange Valkyrie and Ressurect, with the right numbers, for my idea for it, refer to this : "Simple" Mercy rework idea)

Moira

Moira

(In all honesty I should leave this one for the Devs since they have been wrestling with a rework for a bit now but ima try some number tuning here to make her depend more on her unique resource management, while also making her have more decisions/aim with Orb and Grasp usage)

  • Passive Biotic Energy/Resource regeneration reduced by 20%

  • Biotic Grasp (Primary Fire)
    Proj size decreased by 12%
    Healing per second increased from 70 to 80
    Lingering healing per second increased from 35 to 40

  • Biotic Grasp (Alternate fire)
    Now generates 20% more Biotic Energy/Resource on connection.
    Self healing reduced from 24 to 20
    Damage per second reduced from 50 to 40
    Can no longer quckly tap to gain resource faster than otherwise.
    Horizontal beam size decreased by 12%

  • Biotic Orb (Damage)
    Range reduced from 4 to 3 meters.
    Damage total decreased from 200 to 100, damage per second is unchanged.
    Duration reduced from 7 to 4 seconds.

  • Biotic Orb (Healing)
    Range reduced from 5 to 4 meters.
    Healing total decreased from 300 to 195, healing per second is unchanged.
    Duration reduced from 7 to 4 seconds

  • Biotic Orb (Both)
    Now has two charges
    Speed while untethered increased from 20 to 40 m/s.

Zenyatta

Zenyatta

  • Maximum health distribution changed from 50 Health + 150 shields to 75 health and 150 shields.

  • Orb of Discord
    Damage amplification decreased from 25% to 20%

  • Orb of Destruction (Primary and Alternate fire)
    Damage increased from 48 to 50

3 Likes
2

Disagreed, all of these are terrible change except for Kiriko, Ana, Bap.

You’re no better than the current devs.

16 Likes
3

How terrible, from pretty terrible to just terrible?

I think there arent all that far from something we could see, maybe, ofc its mostly just number tuning.

Never said i am, hard to beat a full team of devs with hard data.

4

….Why tho??? Unneeded and honestly just stupid…

3 Likes
5

I think Taxi’ng is sort of an uneeded design part of the game and just leads to Lúcio being a bit too much a must pick on Koth/Round starts, is why, if that wasnt as prevalent maybe Lúcio wouldnt be so meta.

1 Like
6

Only good change here is the health redistribution, everything else is unneeded, as Zen can already melt, and doesn’t need a discord nerf for more damage which he doesn’t need.

1 Like
7

Discord has always been problematic, its very difficult to even remotely buff Zen when he has such an strong ability.

I think thats a decent way to move some of his power from it to the rest of his kit, while keeping his identity as an high damage support.

1 Like
8

None of these are good…she doesn’t need nerfs…and biotic orb is fine. Also she doesn’t need a nerf to her primary, which is already the weakest dps in the game. The healing buff is unnecessary as well since she already has high healing output and people would just complain about it.

6 Likes
9

I disagree, kiriko can cleanse it, and if you can’t just kill or distract the Zen enough to move it onto the diver than that’s a skill issue.

1 Like
10

This is a net-buff instead, if you can manage her resources and aim better, she gains more healing and more Orb uptime.

It has no cooldown, Suzu is the least of its problems, its only really kept in check by the fact Zen is very brittle.

11

While I can see this…if you net buff Moira…it will inevitably end in her being dumpstered, because people love to hate on her.

12

Exactly…Zen is so incredibly easy to kill, so it’s not much of a problem imo.

13

Thats the thing, making her have to aim better, while also net nerfing her DPS Moira capabilities, but buffing her healing instead, maybe wouldnt leave her so hated.

But what if you buff his survivability?

Thats kinda what happened when they gave him 25 more HP, they had to revert it.

14

Wow, where to start?

3 Likes
15

Looking back on it…the only changes that I would not want to happen is either damage orb keeps it’s range or keeps 150 damage. And keeping 50 dps…Moira is good because she provides either damage or healing, but no util. So taking away one of those hurts her a lot.

If to keep the damage, we would have to +1 second to fade cooldown, that’s fine by me. But Moira needs her damage imo to not be a dumpster fire…

16

By the Kiriko nerf i think.

Azymondia

Hmm, its only 10 dps she loses, and self healing, but gets better team healing, she would still be able to DPS, just not as effectively as she does rn.

Plus with 2 orbs, but losing 100 dmg and 100 healing from each, she actually gains 100 extra healing but net-neutral on damage, since her healing orb heals for 300, having two that heal for 200, means she heals a bit more and can also heal while dealing damage at the same time moer often.

The idea really, is that the Devs want Supports to be more survivable, i think, thats what Kiriko really is, they said it themselves they want the supports to feel more like Kiriko and are looking at buffing their survivability, you cant just do that with Zen while keeping Discord what it is i dont think.

Gekigengar

Its more like she would be very hard to catch really and have more openings to start doing things, though thats the reason her inspire would last less, also, we are kinda waiting on how they are going to change Rally atm.

40% speed is to compesate for Aura range decrease, so that good Lúcio players can still apply his aura with good wall-riding.

As for the taxi’ing, i think that part of the game’s design is just not quite healthy, it leads to Lúcio being too important in alot of maps.

I dont get what you mean here, how does it get its value shut down when its also OP?

I think these changes are pretty neutral on Ress’s front, just bringing it more in line with the game’s quicker tempo, i think 20+ second cooldowns dont belong anymore.

How so? I think having to actually aim all of her abilities more and resource manage better but getting compesated with better stats overrall should be kinda fun.

His damage keeps being the same, 48/50 = 5%, actually he gains more dmg since he cant always shoot the discorded target, or barriers.

His team damage goes down significantly but he gets significantly more durable, its a fair tradeoff i think.

Candi

By sacrificing her mobility though.

I think that part of his kit, the Taxi’ing is a bit unhealthy and i think they should experiment with changing it.

Plus hes super meta, i think his ult is also super strong, some small nerfs there with compesation on his wallride i think is kinda fair.

Well, it comes with a big tradeoff, they seem to want to buff Supp’s survivabiltiy i think thats a decent way, we saw how that ends up, it seems effective.

Its not exactly dependendt , 2 bash charges are pretty self explanatory, even with slightly less dmg and cooldown, shes just much faster, though with more emphasys on being able to proc Inspire well.

Hm, maybe, its just taking away some power from the nade wich seems a bit much currently, again, and sorta giving some to sleep, making it fit the game’s tempo more.

Maybe 15 is a bit too low yeah, i was really thinking hard on that one either 20 or 15, if thats too low then maybe 75 health on the Generator and a bit less range?

Moira and Mercy changes are supposed to be net-buffs, skilled Mercys should be able to just get a net gain on healing, plus Ress would fit on the newer quicker format more this way, i think, maybe.

Skilled Moiras would be rewarded with more healing and better spike value, likely.

Though in reality i think Mercy kinda needs a rework of sorts, by trading Valk and Ress’s slots on her kit.

17

So…don’t buff his survivability. Zen isn’t supposed to be survivable, he’s supposed to just be another immobile dps with some healing and util.

He’s in a good place right now, he doesn’t need buffs or nerfs.

18

Flex support leaning more towards Ana, so I played all the support a lot.
I agree with Ana/Bap/Kiriko changes, these sounds fun.
But the others will heavily disrupt the game or make them completely unplayable.

Brig’s shield bash value isn’t the damage. With 2 charge, imagine the chase and shut down potential against Rein/Doom. This is just insanely powerful, she should never have 2 charge. I would rather mess with her shields a bit, or give overhealth on healing packs to prevent one shots on 200HP team mates.

Lucio with 40% wall ride speed? I don’t think I have to explain how crazy this is in both fight, contesting, and rollout speed.

And why wouldn’t he be allowed to make team rollout faster? Taxi costs a lot for both Lucio and his team.

Mercy’s rez value is bringing up team-mates with ults. 50% HP and 20% decreased damage would shut that value down completely.
15sec CD on rez would make her op for defense.
Basically you can’t pick/push enemies at all.
These are just bad change waiting for more Mercy nerfs.

The Moira change are purely just less fun, just no.

And Zen is just overall nerf in his and team’s damage. And 25 HP will just make him even more annoying to fight against.

2 Likes
19

The Mercy changes are wacko…you realize she would have almost infinite 60/hps and 30% on GA with that change, right? lol…

And your Lucio changes are such a devastatingly hard nerf to a hero that absolutely does not need it, haha! In fact, you’re buffing the part of his kit that people find most frustrating to play into.

Kiri changes seem ok enough. I’m not a fan of buffing Zen’s overall health. I also can’t comment on Brig’s changes being dependent on an ultimate we haven’t seen at all. Ana changes seem like they would have to hand in hand with the Kiri changes or it would be a gutting. Bap changes are okay enough, but I think the CD might be too low for that Immo.

20

Majority of this stuff is net nerfs, especially to some heroes. No thanks.

Anyone that wants to nerf heroes like Moira or Mercy and make them feel worse/have less value has to be on something. I can’t take this seriously at all.

6 Likes