Reaper? I was talking about McCree and his FTH
So why isn’t the argument here that McCree should be getting peeled for?
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He should be, then it becomes a team game and the better team wins, not the better hero. But people like to discuss the game as if it’s always 1v1. McCree does this to Rein!.. well Zarya does that to Rein too, but the enemy Ana does that to McCree, but then the DPS do…
In a 1v1 Reaper is one of the best heroes around. In a team, he’s one of the worst.
I think the problem for FTH is really 20 meters before falloff is absurd. This lets him eliminate barriers from longish range. He probably needs to be able to fth to keep certain character in check (for example, 250 damage FTH not only doesn’t kill DF if he has barrier but also allows him to uppercut you before you finish fanning, and kill you even after having outplayed him).
But we could make the range like…6 meters no problem. Problem solved.
I agree here, the falloff could be a good nerf. People seem to want to absolutely dumpster a hero that is already in a tough spot however.
“Nerf his +25 HP!”… but he already dies 3rd most, nearly tied for 2nd most in the game. Why would this even be considered?
“Remove Fan/Reload, no compensation buffs!” Literally taking half of the damage away from a DPS hero.
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Well like I said above, people like to discuss the game as if rotating what’s meta in GM is the goal, rather than fixing systemic issues like Queue Times and the lack of Tank variety outside the top 2% of players.
McCree being in the top 5 heroes, much less having this much pickrate, is kinda irrelevant.
You know what’s also more relevant? Gameplay niche’s. Where heroes have things they are good at, and things they are bad at.
i.e. Why use a Reaper or a Junkrat when McCree serves well enough?
Why does McCree + Mei comps somehow have enough AntiBarrier. So why run something that breaks barriers, or run a more offensive hero as the second.
Hero usage variety is negatively impacted by heroes that “Do too much”.
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I agree, Ana and Doom are bad for the game.
Anti-heal+burst heal+heal buff, Sleep, high damage scoped hitscan, damage buff + damage resistance + heal. Whoa.
Also multiple forms of displacements, air locks, hypermobility, shotgun attack, vampirism (shields on damage), one-shot, multiple AOE attacks, get-out-of-jail-free ult for super aggressive plays. Yikes.
McCree… Shoots bullets mid-range, shoots bullets faster short range, stun, and rolls on the floor once. Ehh…
You’re taking my point, and referencing the raw number of things they do.
Not the capabilities.
And while Ana certainly fits that bill. Doom, is mostly doing the one single combo almost 100% of the match. And he’s heavily limited by range.
McCree? Unless we’re talking Widow range, he’s great for that whole range.
i.e. Barrier breaking at range, then bursting down stuff behind those barriers, then killing any tanks that rush him at close range.
By comparison, you got Reaper, that only really does the “Shoot stuff at close range”
I strongly disagree as I play all ranged hitscans, Reaper, Pharah, Junkrat, Zarya, Hog, Winston, Rein, Mercy, Moira, Ana, and Bap.
McCree IS NOT a good long-range option playing as or against. I really don’t worry about him like I worry about other heroes and if I want to damage at range, he’s my LAST choice.
The point is that except for long range, he is dominant at all the other ranges.
If you’re worried about tank queues, then worry about Ana and Doom. She is the hero I fear the most as any tank. Doom is second because of the constant displacements and cleaving one-shot that invalidates my tanking.
There’s not much room to nerf either ability without making them bad abilities
FTH fall-off would be fine I think.
The amount of heroes that would be viable without McCree, Ashe, Widow, and Hanzo.
Get rid of those four and SO MANY other heroes become viable. Burst damage > all else. And it’s a shame.
There is plenty of room.
Really doubt any sort of change like this would drop them to below average.
And if they really do need a bit more, just buff up their Roll/Lunge a bit. Which is already mostly good enough to get out of Winston Telsa range in most circumstances. Add a few more meters or a little less cooldown, and that’s plenty.
Trading one set of problems for another. The meta will never favor “fair, non-burst” heroes as long as anyone else remains. If you drop those four, you’ll just see Hog, Tracer, Doom take their place on the hate list.
Continuing down that path, we just wind up with Soldier and Mercy as the only selectable heroes. Overwatch will never be truly balanced, so “fair, non-burst” heroes simply must be buffed to compete with “cheezy burst” heroes.
That’s the game Blizzard made and there’s no way around it without fundamentally changing the game.
And as others have pointed out, if/when McCree isn’t top dog, it will just be someone else the forums complain about. So it’s really about who is the worst of the best on top. And I think that’s McCree. He’s bursty, but not one-shot. He’s got mobility, but not much. He can spam, but not for long. He stuns, but its blockable and short ranged. And he requires precise aim on primary.
I don’t think that would accomplish anything, it’s wildly inaccurate if whatever you’re shooting isn’t right in front of you as it is. You’re lucky to hit a single bullet past 10m unless you’re shooting a tank/barrier. For all of his ammo, dealing 50->100 damage past 10m isn’t impressive
How do you not think people would just roll over McCree if his only close range threat is on a 4 second cooldown? Every hitscan would outclass McCree with this change, and good luck stopping Reaper who can just wraith form & press W into you afterwards
Honestly…this is probably a net buff. Sure, there’s lower overall damage if he’s shooting it into a tank/barrier, but a 30m/s increase is massive, he would practically be a hitscan with storm arrow. Able to deal 420 damage in less than a second from across the map
How low exactly do you think Tank mobility skills are?
Or does it take 625 damage to kill a Tracer?
Tank mobility is not low, especially with a Lucio
This 625 damage combo you’re referring to is next to useless except against low skilled players…
Any competent team is going to either kill the McCree that got that close to them or is going to protect against it with defensive abilities
Both teams can have a Lucio.
What you’re basically describing is the idea that McCree should be strong against a coordinated team Dive or Rush comp.
If it’s useless, why are you acting like taking it away would make McCree worthless?
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