Stop Saying Rein is OP!

General Discussion
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Hear me out on this one:

Yes, recently Rein has been a strong pick, definitely the strongest tank pick and perhaps one of the strongest in the game. However, over the small culmination of small balance changes, believe or not, he is not the strongest tank anymore. Last weekend we saw the May Melee which featured OWL players playing on the new patch for the first time and without hero pools. Before this, it was clear that dive was probably strongest in OWL, but outside of that, we hadn’t seen what these small changes actually did to affect the best tank picks. Most people just assumed it was still Rein Zarya. But as we saw for the first time last weekend, we are in a distinctly new meta from brawl and now are into double shield spam (Orisa Sigma).

I’m going to quote freedo from your overwatch here to explain my point, “you may not have noticed because so many of the recent patches have been small and incremental but I think we are distinctly in a new meta. I was working on this video last week collecting my thoughts then I realized that the overwatch league had their huge may melee tournament over the weekend using the same ruleset that’s in ranked: no hero baned and they’re playing on the live patch. ” He then goes onto explain specific changes and buffs including the repeated mei nerfs, overall cc nerfs (a big one being Mcree and Reinhardt) and the buffs of spam heroes. These changes have tipped the scale and he basically says that the distinction between metas is now. Now I should mention this video is not aimed at dissecting the pro meta, it is actually designed for the ranked player base. And he has done these videos every patch, slowly stating the decreasing power of brawl comps and the increasing power of double shield for ranked.

Another point around this is the fact that the ranked population, including Masters and GM, don’t actually think for themselves in a lot of cases. You might think that they would have picked up on the power level of Double shield, which to be fair they did to an extent, but only now that the power of double shield has actually been noticed will you see the major changes in playtime.

Another common misconception is that double shield is a hard comp to play. Its actually probably the easiest comp in the game, especially when playing against a Reinhardt. It is comparable to bunker, in that you stand behind shields and whittle away at the enemy while the move foward and can do nothing about it. I don’t think too many people think that bastion on first point defense Paris is very hard, that same principle applies to double shield. It’s strong not only because the tanks complement each other so well, but because it is very easy to enable your DPS picks to put in work which is something that requires much more co-ordination with brawl.

Another talking point is about Rein’s skill floor and how, despite being pretty bad at the top, he will always be good at low ranks. Yes, this is true to an extent. Don’t get me wrong, Rein is can be played without thinking pretty much, but to be fair so can double shield just as easily. Other dive and random tank comps can easily beat brawl too but it requires more coordination. Furthermore, Rein does fit into that good at low ranks bad at high ranks like a lot of heroes. You can say the same thing about reaper or Junkrat etc. It’s just the nature of the game that there are so few main tanks in the game that mirror a similar style. If you got all the dps in the game and halved them and then halved them again, you would not even have close to the number of main tanks we have in the game, and as a result, a hero like Reinhardt that in theory is bad but is good to play at low ranks can get a lot of uncontested value. All you would have to do is add a tank to compete with him at low ranks that might be bad at high ranks which is what happens in the DPS category. And I think that needs to happen soon because the state of tanks is becoming so finicky between Rein being strong to Orisa being strong with no room for anything else (poor hog).

Also one side note, a lot of Rein’s playtime comes from his popularity. This is akin to DVA or Mercy, both heroes which are actually probably a bit on the weak side at the moment. Even if you nerf Reinhardt, you will still see a large amount of playtime of him because he is so popular (exactly like DVA or Mercy). So in effect, the calls to nerf Rein might not actually change anything, but further solidify the double shield meta and remove rein from ever being a top pick.

Anyway, that’s my rant. I highly recommend you watch the new video from Your Overwatch and SVB around the meta and tank picks, they both show that Rein isn’t the strongest pick and that if you put in a little team work, you can actually play any tank in the game right now.

TLDR; Go read it lmao, I don’t think I can summarise all that and if you think Rein is OP and you don’t read it but still choose to post, I’ll probably just end up repeating myself a bunch.

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when will ppl stop comparing owl to ladder?

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When Blizzard stops nerfing/buffing in accordance to the OWL.

I don’t agree with comparing to OWL, I hate when people do but I imagine that’d be when.

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First of all there is no way you could’ve read anything I said and if you did you would’ve known that I wasn’t comparing owl to ladder, I specifically said that double shield was stronger in ladder now than brawl.

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Pros aren’t using rein as much now, showing that the patches have been successful. The issue that a lot of people have is that Rein is, 99% of the time, the de facto best pick in low and mid ranks, meaning that unless he’s absolute trash, people only know how to play with a rein. I’ve tried running dive and the tracer will ask for a rein. The Mercy, who can fly around all the time, will ask for a rein. I suck at rein so I might go sig if I think the team needs it, but the issue with rein is that he’s the main tank that needs the least amount of coordination, and he’s not bad right now. Meaning that most players will want to run rein.

Then we get to zarya. Now, on a pro level, rein/zarya is barely run. They run rein/dva, or rein/sigma, for the flexibility and added peel that sigma/dva can bring to a team. But taht’s because they’re in sync, meaning they can outplay zarya. In lower ranks, people have this strange misconception that zarya can never be outplayed, despite the fact that without CDs, she’s a relatively squishy tank. And she has ONE CD to protect herself, and it’s 10 seconds. Zarya can be outplayed by basically anything, but it requires coordination. And just like how in bronze they struggle with bastion, lower and mid ranks, and even high ranks to an extent, struggle with a zarya. So the best way to beat it? Run your own. Especially since a lot of people are so used to it at this point, they just expect the tanks to go rein/zar. Even if it’s Numbani point A defense (where rein/zar is probably one of the worst tank lineups because they can’t contest any of the high ground well) people will still want rein/zar.

The issue this creates is that people get used to playing one way, MAYBE two ways. So when something unexpected gets thrown at them, they suck at adapting to it, because they’ve been playing more or less the same the whole time. “I went in swinging, where’s my bubble?” “I’m not on zarya, play back, let them waste bubbles, then push”. But people can’t think like that in a lot of cases, so we get this rein/zar “meta” that’s legit only meta with uncoordinated people and kinda meh everywhere else. Dive works with a good team in sync. Double shield works with a good team in sync. The difference between those 2 comps and rein/zar is that rein/zar can be forced to be run into any map, and if the enemy doesn’t understand/is unable to force you to fight differently (don’t fight them in close range, you win at literally range that’s not rein’s hammer and zar’s beam) then they lose. A lot of people will just try to fight rein/zar by playing like them, and then they lose and think rein/zar is OP. Rein/zar is TRASH if you keep them at a distance and make them use CDs. But if people don’t do that, then rein/zar is the best and easiest way to beat the enemy at that point: if you can’t beat them, join them, as they say.

Do I think rein is OP? Yes. But not by that much. He’s the best tank, and probably needs a nerf, but he’s not moth meta, or Brig 1.0. But a lot of people are under the illusion that he is as strong as those heroes from the past, because they play uncoordinated. Honestly, Blizzard should revamp/make something else for LFG, and encourage people to not solo queue. A lot of perceptions of heroes would change then, if you could rely and play around your team consistently. But until then, or the new exc card, most everyone will think rein is insanely OP.

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hmmmmmmmm…

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Read past the first paragraph:

Response to DearAmbelina:
Well you see my issue with this is that its not rein’s problem that he is being played in low ranks. I mean he clearly isn’t the best tank right now because orisa and sigma and even dive are being played over him. I do think that double shield is an alternative that can work similar to rein in low ranks and it will win you games but it requires to specific tank picks. I just think that rein is one of those heroes that is relatively bad at high ranks but good at low ranks, akin to a reaper or junk. Like if you think about reaper, he’s basically never played at the top outside of the one super buffed version of him in the finals of OWL season 2 but he is played at low ranks a lot. Its because there are other, just as easy to play heroes that can compensate or counter him like pharah or mei. With tanks, especially main tanks there just isn’t this. No matter how much you buff winston, its just very difficult to ever get dive to work over how easy rein is. Similarly, Orisa doesn’t matchup well without a Sigma. You really can’t balance these tanks because of how different their playstyle is and the skill required to pull it off. I think the only solution is to add more tanks into the game so that there are other easier tanks that can compete with rein, rather than making the already strong tanks at the top even stronger.

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We don’t need to watch a video to know that Rein was not nerfed proportionately. So, yes, Rein is “OP” to the extent the nerfs weren’t distributed to his shielding proportionately.

And no, you cannot compare OWL to the Ladder.

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what

you just said he’s OP…

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His shielding is not at all what makes him strong, 1600hp shield is destroyed in a matter of seconds against a spam comp. His ‘nerfs’ came from his teammates in mei and cree etc being nerfed while his counters in spam heroes buffed.

Also, most people on the forums probably don’t have a great amount of game knowledge. This is especially true when you compare it to the likes of high GM players that can make accurate videos on these things because they understand the game and what happens in ranked vs what happens in OWL.

Also, I was using OWL as a means to show that Rein was no longer the strongest pick. It wasn’t really OWL, it was the May Melee tournament which is basically a ranked tournament.

Also like I keep saying, when you only have 3 main tanks and one is underpowered (orisa), one is actually very strong but requires coordination not found in ranked (winston) there is actually no competitors to rein. You can’t buff orisa because that will only create the old double shield Meta, and winston is not bad because of balance but because people don’t know how to play with him.

Response to Tequilä:
Read the whole thing, I state that the tipping point for him being strong just happened and he in no longer strong as he is outclassed by double shield at all ranks of play.

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As someone who mainly runs Sigma, don’t even try to tell me his shield isn’t strong … Look I know what you are trying to say, I watch most of these videos, and while in theory they are “right” they often miss the mark in what people actually play and experience directly. We aren’t quite as daft as you think. Blizz is slowly trying to whittle down the distinctions between main and off tank to where they don’t exist, but in the tank balancing they stopped short. Trust me on this: either all the tanks get buffed up, or it won’t be long before your boi Rein gets nerfed.

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“recently”

near 2 years kinda fly by, eh

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Thats just not the issue at all. Firstly, rein barrier gets broken by an orisa and sigma alone in 6 seconds. It often takes him that amount of time to get through a choke point you can’t possibly say that is strong. Sure, its stronger than Orisa and Sigma, but if you are playing sigma like a main tank you are playing him wrong.

I mean they are generally pretty accurate, I don’t see why you can’t play double shield in ranked to be honest. It is just way easier and stronger than Rein right now.

Yeah like I said its not rein that’s at fault here. He is not strong at the top but is at the bottom akin to so many heroes like reaper and junkrat, etc. He just doesn’t have apt competition for the amount of skill required, outside of double shield. Dive counters brawl but it requires a lot of coordination which is not seen in ranked, things like hog sigma can too by just flanking constantly by that requires mechanical skill and your team to also flank and not rely on one shield. So he is balanced at the top, yet the sheer lack of tanks that can compete at a lower rank with less skill isn’t available. I mean what do you expect! There are literally 3 main tanks in the game and 2 are unfun to play of course rein is played a lot.

I was refering to his being actually good, not played in ranked. He was actually good in OWL for a while, that has changed now and can be replicated in ranked (orisa sigma). Now its up to the ranked players to actually play orisa sigma if they hate rein so much, because the alternative is there. Sucks that because of the lack of actual main tanks there is only one alternative but you can’t complain, you got what you wanted.

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I don’t think Rein is especially OP so much as he’s boring to play, makes the game more boring for most everyone else by having such a thicc and quickly castable shield, and is a safety blanket that too many players can’t live without.

What I really want to happen is for all the off tanks to get buffed a little bit in the direction of main tanks(trading some damage or mobility if they have to) and for all the main/barrier tanks to be a little more like current off tanks so that more combinations are viable.

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Orisa sigma was viable for like 2 weeks

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I really enjoyed reading your writeup there, though I slightly disagree that Rein is OP. I feel that after the steadfast nerf, he is perfectly balanced. That aside, I think what you wrote has merit and I hope people read and consider it.

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It was literally what was played for the entire grand finals period, from when sigma was released to when the mass shield nerf came. It’s also the most viable tank combo at the moment so I don’t know what you are talking about.

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In GM Rein is still strong and the trends aren’t really moving. Interestingly the only slight shift in trend is from Zarya to Sigma, while the rest of the tank roster isn’t changing at all.

So if anything, the GM/ladder variant of double barrier uses Rein-Sigma, not Orisa-Sigma as in pro play.

Also, regarding OWL and the May melee, dive tanks were also very dominant and won out in APAC. Again, this isn’t representative of GM or ladder play at all.

There’s just nothing happening in the stats that suggest much of anything is shifting at all in the past month since these other strategies started coming to the fore since Echo.

There’s no evidence of those trickling down at all.

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Orisa sigma is on the rise, I mean its being played close to 50% of games look at any stream of high-level GM gameplay and you’ll see what I mean.

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I can look at the actual data. That is very obviously not the case, and Orisa’s win rate at that level is well below average for the rank.