I agree. You can’t have damage, survivability, utility, and healing. That is the difference between the well balanced supports and the ones that tend to get broken fast. Well balanced supports or weak support are always lacking one or more of these categories. Ana has no mobility so low survivability, Zen has no mobility and low healing, Lucio has low healing, Mercy has no damage, Lifeweaver has low damage, etc. Then we look at the supports that tend to be meta or get broken a lot: Juno has it all. Kiriko has it all. Baptiste is not as big of an issue, but he does have all 4 of the things I mentioned too, and if buffed, could be a potential problem too.
I agree with you about Moira, but I would NOT say that they shouldn’t buff supports at all, because we all know Lifeweaver is weak and his buffs this patch are definitely a good thing.
You say Lifeweaver is weak, I say the entire cast in the game is overtuned. Nerfing reintroduces the idea of soft counters and potentially playing into them. Buffing reenforces hard counters.
Plus there is the threat of whatever season we had before the HP and passives were introduced again, where overwatch was reduced to nothing but just outmathing the opponents. You try for a fancy play, you’re throwing. You try to take an angle, you’re throwing (unless you’re a crack shot widow). That all happened because healing was overtuned. And they didn’t nerf it, they just effectively nerfed it with the DPS passive and the hitbox changes.
A terrible solution IMO, but that was a situation where a terrible solution was better than no solution.
1 Like
He literally has no carry potential… Lowest damage among support aside from Mercy, Lower than average healing for supports, and his utility is purely defensive 90% of the time, leaving him very little impact outside of saving people with life grip or tree. You can argue that everyone else was too strong, sure, but that’s unfortunately what’s happened with power creep to every single role.
The problem is that in order to reduce the power creep of healing, they have to reduce the power creep of damage too, or else healing won’t matter at all, like when the damage passive was overtuned and we got that horrid Moira meta for a little while. However, I do agree that it’s time to make changes like nerfing the power creep overall. They shouldn’t have done the damage passive. They should have just nerfed every support on an individual basis, because some are wayyy stronger than others, and then reduced any damage that is proving to be too strong afterwards.
1 Like
Yeah, like I said, the entire cast needs nerfs. I’m a flex player. I’m not some DPS main who just wants supports to roll over and be a free addition to my K/D ratio.
FYI Lifeweaver actually has the highest non-crit DPS of any support. It’s just hard to leverage that potential on most targets. You got a rein or sig putting up barriers though? Shoot them. Your DPS is massive against them, and it’ll save your DPS’s ammo for the soft targets behind where they can start proccing that passive.
3 Likes
Oh, I’m aware of Lifeweaver’s damage when anything/anyone is stationary or has poor mobility. I’m a Masters 2 support player, maining Brig mostly, but Mercy and Lifeweaver are my 2nd and 3rd most played. His barrier break is fantastic and it works just as well on any deployables like Torb’s turret too. And yes, overall I agree with you. 
1 Like
Well I always feel compelled to jump in whenever somebody calls a character “weak” or champions buffs. Nobody is weak, that’s the problem. Now, characters definitely feel weak, I get that.
Meanwhile you go and play classic right now, and while the character to character and even ability to ability balance is hilariously out of whack, the average powerlevel of the game is much weaker. And yet most, if not all of the characters feel strong. Not that I’m championing classic, it’s got a lot of problems. Still some important info that can be gleaned from it regardless.
Tank has more.
Supports has the choice to only focus on healing.
And often can just both dps and heal without focusing that much on healing (since healing doesnt requiere to do anything special on some characters such a lucio/iliari/mercy etc…)
You also have smaller hitboxes, easy access to self sustain (you dont need to ask for help to get heals) and high mobility
When i want to be chill and feel no pressure i just play support.
Thats not really compatible with having a lot of responsibilities.
Play tank more you will see what suffering can be XD.
So your agreeing your “only job” is to heal you dont need to have high damage to dps
They don’t have better output than damage heroes.
5 Likes
I think Tracer getting a buff is more egregious than Ana getting 5 damage lol.
Although I will agree, it goes from 4 tapping a 225HP hero to 3, and that is big. I don’t thinks he needed it. They keep going back and forth. :')
My issue is that ana didn’t need the +5 heals on top of that.
What’s the point of the dps passive at all if healing is getting buffed anyway?
1 Like
Moira’s self heal after the patch is 30. Melee does what 40 or 50. What you are saying is just not right… you must have missed your melees.
1 Like
According to the sound effects I did not. It’s possible that there was a noreg in there even though it gave me full hit sound effects. Wouldn’t be the first time that happened to me. But I was still getting the bleed sound effect because I was hitting her with my knife.
It’s possible she received healing from the Kiriko as well, but I didn’t see anything and the Kiriko was focused on keeping their tank alive. It would have been a weird angle to hit those papers.
Melee does 40, plus there was 15 over 3 seconds from the bleed.
Not sure if its a bug but sometimes I am trying to kill someone and suddenly they start healing passively. Like, I was on moira and trying to kill an ashe who was all alone… miles away from her team and suddenly she started healing (I saw it in the kill cam). I was hitting her so she couldn’t have triggered her passive healing… i don’t know. this is wonky
Well after the third melee the Kiriko switched healing targets and I just gave up and reloaded while retreating to cover. Still won the teamfight in the end, but it was an extremely frustrating situation.
The Moira buff seems beyond stupid to me, especially considering they can’t even give a reasonable explanation for it. She was already an excellent 1v1er with very forgiving cooldowns and a rock bottom skill floor.
1 Like
What support has more damage output than DPS heroes ?
1 Like
Lifeweaver and zenyatta?
Neither of whom are being complained about here.
(Maybe bap and kiri too)
Me on Zen looking for my on demand escape option
1 Like
LW has a theoric 140dps with spreadth.
S76 theoric DPS of his left click is 170 dps.
According to Overbuff : Damage heroes deal 7,477/ 10min.
Lifeweaver does : 1,732 damage / 10 min.
Zenyatta does : 5,410/ 10min
Zenyatta has no self sustain, no escape.
Kiriko needs to headshot to deal 120damage. Pharah deals the same with bodyshot. Rat deals 125 damage on direct hits.
Not mentionning Ashe (up to 150 damage headshot), Hanzo (125 body shot full charged, 150 critical storm arrow)…
So no… No Support deals more damage than DPS heroes unless you can’t play DPS Heroes.
2 Likes