no moiras not bad in one comp with rein lucio
That’s not a dps Moira then. You are talking about playing close range rush comp with Moira. I’m talking solo queue Tik Tok Moira in your backline.
Ow ya that doesnt work in higher ranked
Or we could balance for the every man instead of the weird inbetweens.
I trust people who do game balance for a living. Yea yea “bad at their jobs”
or we balance around the top levels of play where hero choice is actually important
In low elo anything is viable. In high elo you have clear advantage when you pick meta heroes over niche ones outside of their niche maps. Doesn’t matter if on average Widow is bad in low elo, she will stomp if you are good at her. But this doesn’t exactly work the other way around. Reaper can be good in low elo on average, but even if good player picks him in high elo he will struggle because people know how to abuse his lack of range.
Good heroes can absolutely be played in low elo and have a success, but bad heroes are rarely allowed to be played in high elo. Why good heroes lose to noob stompers then in low elo? Because you actually have to practice their kit. 80% effectiveness Moira is better than 30% effectiveness Bap. In high elo where people play heroes way closer to their potential, inbalances in hero strength matters a lot more.
You really think they balance the game around the top % only? Same people crying that they balance around OWL as if they didn’t ignore pro player opinions/sentiments for years. Hate to break it to you, but 75% of the game is balanced based on useless statistics and the last 25% by whatever people complain about.
yes look at the top 1% players to use stats that will do it, none of us play there X)
After you made the point about Tracer being non-existent because Supports delete her with the exception of Top 500 one tricks?
Below Masters, Tracer isn’t picked often because the skill level just isn’t there. People don’t know how to play Tracer correctly in the metal ranks.
I remember knowing a duo in Gold who figured out the Hog/Orisa Pull/Hook combo before it started appearing at high level in, like, Season 11 or whatever. At the time, I thought it was really clever and a little broken, but of course since they were Gold, they often failed at it due to some combination of mechanics, bad positioning, or just plain old nonsense (LOL one time the Hog walked himself right off a cliff because he was trying to go for a Hook and wasn’t paying attention to where he was standing).
But sure enough, those guys were kind of ahead of their time. They just weren’t quite there yet.
On a separate note, another thing that low ranked players got right while high ranked players were mockingly telling them that they were wrongs was that Widow (or, rather, one-shot long range DPS) were going to be absolutely broken in 5v5 once OW2 launched. I remember at the time all the Top 500 and GM players guffawing and blowing it off…until the game launched and a long-range one-shot hero was dominant. And then, when Sojourn got nerfed everybody started complaining about Widow diffs and how oppressive she is (especially on certain maps).
Was it really clever discovery? I mean pull into anything sounds strong xD It just happens that combined with a hook it also displaces the guy even further. But pull was broken with pretty much anything as long you have coordination to do it. Who needs Grav Dragon when you can pull dragon? Who needs hook when you can just shoot the guy lol. I’m not here to mock but imo it’s the first thing that comes to mind “what’s the worst ability you can get hit by in the game? Now imagine if you could force someone to take it because of the pull”.
Clever discovery is something like teleporting D.Va bomb with Sym, I wouldn’t even test it if it’s possible to teleport objects before it became a thing. Or how people figure out that you can slingshot Orisa ult with Lifeweaver pull. That seems like a bizzare technique. And yes, if someone did that to me in the game I would be surprised if people didn’t climb using such creative techniques XD. What’s the counterplay to that when you don’t know it exist lol. And of course insane amounts of Doom rollouts that don’t make any sense since he can just bounce of the object and depending on timing you have different heights so you never really know where will he come from.
The only people who weren’t thinking that Widow will be the problem are people who don’t think that even now imo. People are divided on Widow being broken since forever. Many GM players said that Widow is busted in OW1 and will continue to be even better later. Many other players said she is fine. Like now.
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100% everyone was saying that it’s going to be a problem with a hint of flankers being better having a chance at dealing with her. And they were right in saying it because that’s how it went
I fail to see how that’s remotely relevant or the point here or an argument that can be objectively made. Is Nanoing a Genji or Reaper or bubbling a Reinhardt a big brain play? Not particularly. But it’s silly and pointless to argue whether or not a meta is “smart”. All I’m saying is that, yeah, sometimes low ranked players are a broken clock.
And here my point is proven. These aren’t particularly “smart” either.
Here’s another one that I like to do: placing a petal platform under Bob or pulling him so that he has a better angle to pick off enemies. But trying to shoehorn arbitrary metrics that we personally think is “impressive” both silly and irrelevant.
Like I already said, players can have “good idea” and still fail to execute the mechanics or have other issues in their gameplay that don’t let them climb. Not to mention that novel ideas don’t exactly stay novel for long.
Sure. But that doesn’t change my point. My point was that these GM/Top 500 players (for fairness, let’s add the word “some” to that) were ignoring or insulting lower ranked players who gave these concerns strictly because it was low ranked players that were saying it and Widow is a “high skill” hero. You’ve been here long enough to know damn well the types of players I’m talking about, so we really don’t need to qualify it with a “Not all GMs”. We know the types.
Flankers being good is irrelevant. We’ve just been through 2+ seasons of both Tracer and some form of sniper being in the top 3 DPS picks.
Flankers being good does not inherently stop snipers from ALSO being good.
Okay? Don’t really know who asked about this
Sure fair enough.
Yes. And people can discredit the effectiveness of said tactics because they may say “well you can just sleep that Bob so it’s not gonna be a big hit regardless” or something. Agree that novels don’t stay novels for long. But original point was - if idea is so good then it’s probably a good strategy that will win you games.
To which I say “what’s the counterplay to accurate Widow?” Because to Reaper it’s staying away from him. Can you afford to never peek Widow? Not really. So you are always playing the dices with her if she lands a shot on you or not. And depending on the distance she may take multiple shots before you even can damage her. It’s not even OW2 issue, it’s map design issue. Widow is fine on the maps where you can realistically contest her. I may still find it unpleasant to fight her, but I’m not gonna say she is broken on Kings Row or whatever. Because there it’s true that you can just not peek her sightlines and dive her. But on Havana? Yeah… no.
You tell me. I was explaining why your point is irrelevant.
And they probably will. IIRC, the Halt/Hook duo I played with dominated that game. (But, it’s literally been over half a decade so I don’t want to risk remembering it wrong) and they were having a blast laughing about how effective it was. I’m sure they found great success with it up to a point.
But yeah, that Hog walking himself right off the edge doesn’t make me think they made it higher than Plat at most.
See, this is why I may not always agree with you, but I can always respect you.
Well said.
That’s cute. I remember that I climbed to the GM for the first time when Sigma got released and people weren’t sure then yet that he is ultra broken. Many people didn’t mirror him then yet and I climbed like 500 SR with 80+ winrate. Only later I realised “daaaamn this hero is broken, it’s not just me being good at him” XD
Same story with Brig for many people. When she was released people climbed but were not sure if she is good. But oh boi she was. It took a month or so before massive complaints started.