Soft lock targeting (requires no aim), zero cooldown (always in use, little to no decision making, pretty much always on tanks), huge value (blows up tanks let alone squishies), also serves as a wallhack for one enemy once its applied, AND because of the soft lock aiming it points out enemies that could be hidden in something like a bush and the naked eye wouldn’t notice them, what is the point of having the ability in this state of constant, effortless value? What is the counter play to a discord orb, hide behind a wall, and when the orb gets removed you go back to fight and its instantly back on you because there is no cooldown. I understand that all characters should have something thats low skill floor to use and something thats high skill ceiling to use, but zens healing already is low skill floor, no need for the discord to be so too.
My solution: make discord orbs a 7 or 8 second cooldown that upon activation has 3 charges of the orb, they are aimed just like his primary fire, and each of them deals the primary fire damage and applies 4 seconds of 5% damage taken increase (stackable). Mechanically it would work similar to hanzo storm arrow, and i think the projectile speed increase compared to the primary fire could fit in here too. Ofc the exact numbers can be tinkered around to fine tune it.
Bottom line is: stop giving heroes super low skill floor yet super high impact abilities (Cassidy flash bang and homing grenade in ow2 another example), its fine to have some mechanic thats lower skill floor for every hero but that ability shouldnt be the primary value of the hero and biggest reason to pick the hero anywhere in higher ranks, and right now zens discord orb is the primary reason to pick him in most ranks.
As i said the numbers can be tinkered with to balance it, the projectile speed can be increased, the damage % increase can be increased, those can be the upsides. The point is to make it a skillshot instead of a soft lock low skill ceiling deny an enemy players activity and fun ability.
Tanks are already the most powerful characters in the game, I think they shouldnt be receiving huge buffs like this unless they get massive nerfs in other areas of their kits.
The faster projectile speed would be good because as I said, the discord orbs should deal the primary fire damage amount, meaning it could be very useful vs Pharah and echo for example, or just in general long range.
I like the idea of needing discord to be something on cooldown, for a short period that you need to time. flats suggested 15% damage boost instead of 25% on the orb, which i like too. I think overwatch today is much more of a skillbased game than it was a few years ago, and it makes sense for zens power to come from having to plan out rather than just, existing.
discord having a cooldown or being a skillshot would make the character much less fluid. just nerf the damage amplification or make it ramp up over time
If you think its too big of a nerf and if it really was in practice too big of a nerf, as I said, the numbers can be tinkered with, it can be 10% damage increase per landed discord orb, making it a larger potential amount of damage increase if all 3 are landed, its not about the numbers specifically, i would want the ability to stay powerful, just a higher skill floor, do you agree with that?
flats just wants to gut everything that counters rein, he shouldn’t get a say in this. the thing is that you do get value by existing on zen, but before the changes existing was a challenge due to flankers, and now it is much easier
its not about tuning the numbers imo, its about the ability design. Just a lower % damage increase wouldn’t make it a higher skill floor, it would just be a flat nerf. Id prefer it be a high skill ceiling ability that gets rewarded a lot when used properly, instead of constant, effortless value.
I think they just need to decide: is Zen a glass canon (so he loses the health for sure, and probably the damage on snap kick) or is he now a bulkier boy (so discord and his damage should be nerfed).
Those are the only two ways I see of addressing him, he definitely can’t stay how he is.
People wanted things to melt with high damage and low ttk.
Well you got your wish.
Instead of just focusing on things like discord and anti-nade, how about we look at all the insanely power crept DPS that have retained all those GOATs era buffs?
So sick of every time there’s a problem in the game the solution is clearly to alter the play experience of support and tank players.
i don’t think this guys ideas are good but zen causing everything to die fast is probably not popular with other support players. additionally, zen is usually one of the least played supports for most players, so feeling like being forced onto zen isn’t enjoyable for a lot of players
any changes to support heroes would make the support queue shorter right now. a big change to discord like this which would make it more fun and engaging to use would undoubtedly make a lot of people wanna play zen. Plus, this isnt about nerfing zen, this is just about his design.