CelestialElf has a point. All ranks have limited spots, they are just not visibly numbered like Top500.
GM, for instance, always represents around 1% of the player base (this percentile was stipulated by the devs). Therefore, if GM players have numerous accounts in this rank, they push out other players back into Masters.
Realistically, GM represents more like .5% of the player base but since each player has 2 accounts in GM on average, it sums up to 1% of the total accounts of the player base (rather than real players).
You have a point as well and this is the reason why we had decay before RQ. However, having to play 7 games per week per role is too much of a time commitment which is why they removed it. They would have to heavily adjust this process.
Not sure where you got this, but OW2 PVP will be free for anyone who owns OW1. It won’t be free for new players.
This is correct.
This is generally accounted for by the hidden MMR. The visible SR decays, while the hidden MMR remains. So you will still be matched with GM players, even if you decayed to diamond.
Your thoughts on how this works in Top500 is exactly how it applies to all ranks.
I know, what I am referring to is the move to make PVP F2P… Jake for instance put in directly to Blizz on this…
Again you missed what we are saying. This literally has nothing to do with Top 500. MMR/SR is a relative value. Why can’t you understand this? Again watch video of “Diamonds” in 2017, then compare it to now… now this clearly indicates its about relative value. Thus alts naturally create MMR/SR inflation. This is not hard to grasp.
A lot of people advocate for this, no? But realistically, I highly doubt this is gonna happen. Blizzard literally spent 3 years working on OW2 so they could finally cash in a big bag of $$.
I hate the idea, but I think it’s inevitable quite honestly. Now, it won’t happen on launch, my guess is they have a number in mind for sales, and past that point it PVP will go F2P. The PVE content however along with boxed cosmetics, etc. will remain for pay.
When you have pros asking for it, and most games have gone F2P (again, not that I like it), I think they see the impact. They could not care less about the integrity of the Ladder, that is obvious today.
Correct. If you are GM in skill, where you win 50% of your matches, but the “decay” puts your SR to diamond, yet still only lets you win 50% of your games, guess where you’ll get stuck? DIAMOND. You think people should have 2 rank discrepancies between their MMR and SR? Because that’s what decay will do if it only decays SR and not MMR.
I really do not understand how you cannot grasp how the system works; when its relative, and if we just compared actual single players vs. accounts we would see a percentage of people in different tiers. I really cannot understand how you cannot see how a relative ELO system is impacted by alts.
Outliers of what? The ranks are distributed across all accounts that have a competitive rank, not just all players.
Since you seem unable to understand this, let’s assume 2 scenarios. One in which players don’t have alt accounts and one in which they do.
Scenario 1:
There are exactly 10000 players playing this game, each of them has exactly one account. The rank distribution are pretty much the same:
Masters makes up 3% of the player base (300 players)
GM makes up 1% of the player base (100 players)
Top500 makes up .1% of the player base (10 players; so let’s call it Top10)
Scanario 2:
They are exactly 9999 but 1 person has 2 accounts, so a total of 10000 accounts. You can now insert this 2nd account of that one person into any rank, and it will push out someone else out of that rank.
If this person is Top10 on his main, and ranks his alt up to Top10 as well, the 10th person of top10 will be pushed out. In the end, there will still be 10 accounts in Top10 but only 9 real players.
If this person is only GM, say 4200, and ranks his alt up to GM as well, he will push out one of the other players because GM only holds 1% of the playerbase (in this case 100 player). As a result, there will still be 100 accounts in GM representing 1% of the playerbase, but effectively GM will only consist of 99 players instead of 100.
Thank you, I was too lazy to go this far. It is amazing to me that anyone cannot grasp that it’s relative skill level and as you said, distribution defining the tiers. There is no magic in the MMR system looking at anything more than that.
Dude - do you think I am complaining per se, have I ever said I was “hardstuck”? I am explaining how it works and where it’s a bad system with alts and why SR decay would help everyone. What is your problem here? The man/woman just explained directly how it works… seems to me you have an ego issue here of some kind. SR Decay on alts would create a more fair system, if you actually are interested in a real game that is actually fair you would appreciate this. Sounds like you really aren’t.
Honestly when we devolve to “git gud” nonsense then it shows you have no argument to explain why I am not correct in my analysis of why SR decay is a good thing.
I never said they ruined my placements, are you okay? What I said was SR decay is a good idea to stem the problem of alts (btw something Blizz directly has said they are looking to address in OW 2, they might do SR decay as part of it) inflating the system. The math was laid out for you, its irrefutable the impact alts have on SR inflation.
If you cannot grasp that the system is clearly working a certain way and accept that if we refer to it as player ranking, when its really account ranking, then I think the problem is you, not me.
Okay, so let me get this straight. First, you are being a douche about your incorrect statement being correct. Upon your realization that you are in fact wrong, all you can muster is this strawman? Good job, buddy. I guess it takes an adult to own up to their mistake.
I think I got something wrong here. Instead of assuming the same number of total accounts in both scenarios, I think I should have added the alt accounts on top of the 10000 players:
So let’s say that there are exactly 10000 players, but 1000 players have 2 accounts. This adds up to 11000 accounts. This changes the absolute numbers for each rank to:
3% Masters - 330 players
1% GM - 110 players
Now if we assume the same skill distribution for the 1000 alt accounts in that 3% of them are masters, 1% of them GMs, and so on, and all of them play their best to rank up to their main SR rank, then it shouldn’t affect the skill distribution after all.
But its far more than that, and it’s across tiers. Its not just about the top. it weights the SR range for a tier more than it would otherwise, and that is the entire point.
Rethink it:
10000 accounts, not players. But in reality 9900 players across tiers on 10000. Now you have 100 accounts across tiers occupying slots they would not otherwise. It’s this impact, esp. since its a curve that creates SR inflation. Had it been 9900 players the distribution would likely move a few players across tiers. That is the way this actually works.
But the real problem is hardcores have often 5-20 accounts, yes 20. When people start to have 5:1 accounts to players, the numbers get really skewed, and they do it most often between Gold and Top 500. I would not be surprised in the least if the real players vs. accounts (even just active) for say Plat is maybe 2:1 or worse. That is serious SR inflation as as percentage of actual players in the game.
Imagine that 10000 accounts actually being a ratio that is more like say 6000 players on 10000 accounts…