I agree with him. The problem is not so much the snipers per se, it’s that some points, on a lot of maps actually, not only force you to go in the open, but also give snipers some nests that are almost impossible to contest.
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We can talk about whether it’s the character or the maps but at the end of the day: are they really going to review these maps and amend them? Does anyone have any faith that they’re willing to do this after seeing OW2 Havana? And then add to that, he’s able to cite a bunch of maps that could do with some attention, so it’s not a case of one or two maps here.
I think he makes a good case and all, but if Blizzard do end up deciding to do something about Widow, I think they’re more likely to directly adjust the character because it’s simply much easier and safer to do.
Not that I’d be against getting more routes across Rialto B if there’s any chance of that, mind you.
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No. And even if they did, it would take too long. And even if they did, it’s more likely than not that it wouldn’t fix the issue.
So it would be a lot easier to just fix it directly:
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Yeah, I agree. They won’t change all the maps. They’ll (maybe !) tweak Widow and Hanzo, but that won’t really solve the issue.
I don’t think Sojourn really needs a rework. But maybe that’s just me. I don’t see her that often in game anyway, compared to the other 2. I like your ideas overall. I think I would also remove the close range ability from Widow (no automatic rifle), but maybe that’d be a bit too much 
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But that’s kinda the thing.
The only reason she’s not considered a problem, is that they other two are much bigger problems.
Similar to how Widow/Hanzo weren’t problems when Sojourn was a better choice.
It’s all problems. They are just less obvious when they aren’t the most urgent critical problem.
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i have no problem with certain heroes being good on certain maps, this isnt just widow that has this trait. symmetra is very good on certain maps as well so i dont see why we nerf heroes because they are good with one map and meh with another.
so basically nerf widow on the maps shes good at so she just becomes meh? sounds like whining to me
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I got this really weird concept for you.
Video games are supposed to be fun. And exceptionally boring and frustrating counterplay is a bigger problem than tier list rankings that only apply to 1% or less of the total player population.
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yea its that arguement of unfun heroes should be reworked. it happened to roadhog and it can happen to widow but the term of “unfun” is pretty subjective. the devs supposedly did that too roadhog and they can do the same to widow. dont know why they havnt and may in the future but for now it doesnt look like they will
there are hints tho, that aprils fools day patch had that delayed dot widow headshot so you never know…
Would you prefer “uninteractive counterplay”?
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well that is an opinion too, i hear about this “i cant counter” widow arguement a lot and its usually high ranked players. now im not a high ranked player and maybe thier arguement is right about no counterplay but maybe… they just dont have the skill to counter someone in thier rank. it could be that and they are too proud to admit it.
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I think snipers being able to have incontestable areas is a huge issue, but that’s not the inly issue of importance. Although, I really only consider Widow to be a sniper.
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I’d argue that it’s less about “Can’t counter”, and more about how hiding 90% of the game, or diving a hero that’s got really good selfpeel. Just isn’t an enjoyable experience for the vast majority of players.
Subjectively some people might like watching paint dry, but objectively very few people do.
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thats the goal of a sniper to be hidden and in the back since they are suppose to be weak close range. only hanzo doesnt follow that rule but he is projectile so in a sense weaker than widow at the highest level
If they took out grapple hook and half the peeling options in the game, sure.
Tracer is really easy to kill, if we ignore her cooldowns.
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well like i said, i think the devs feel she is fine atm and maybe that will be a thing to nerf if she overperforms. right now its 12 seconds so they may extend it to 15. would suck for lower ranked players but balance is from the top. we shall see i guess
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honestly they should and rebalance every map, so there are appropriate covers and flank routes, and there isnt just 1 when it comes to widow spots. Its makes all parts of the game harder yet more fair. Stop designing easy straight and narrow widow maps, its just bad design that lets the character flourish, while making every other character feel unplayable. And its the maps that let her do it.
Making her weaker isnt an option, and reducing her range makes her just a bad ashe, and ashe is just as annoying to be honest. Just fix the maps where she has a clear and unfair advantage.
i dont see how hard it is to put like a big statue on some of those long site lines heh or some barricades. maybe the coding is hard on certain maps but they should. still the guy said “certain maps” and is fine on other so 
are other heroes the same way? real good on some maps but op on others?
probably should try to balance all heroes on all maps but thats a tall order. there will be outliers and should be nerfed IF the overperformance is by a large margin. maybe widows margin isnt that large
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First, because Sym is good in way less maps than any sniper, and STILL doesnt break the game as snipers do.
Second, Sym is dispropotionally awful in most maps outside said maps, while snipers are at worst a decent pick on most maps/points.
Third, Sym’s impact those few maps is out of her hands and dependent entirely on her team actually taking the TP. They dont, she goes to F tier even in Liayang.
Fourth, and most importantly: NO ONE IS OKAY WITH THIS. Sym mains dont want to be team hyper dependent team TP slaves. We have asked for changes to this for YEARS. Many are perfectly fine with TP going personal if it means Sym is less pocket and babysitting dependent.
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Probably, yeah. But she really has to charge that gun first, unlike Hanzo for ex. And then she has to hit. So I’m less bothered by her.
It’s not that certain heroes are “better” on certain maps. It’s that most maps are so badly designed that snipers simply cannot be countered : large open spaces to go through with no cover, sniper positions unreachable by flankers, etc… All other heroes can be countered. Snipers, on a lot of maps, especially certain points, have no counter (unless you’re a good widow too, but that’s just keeping the problem in place).
Agreed on what a sniper is. But, snipers usually don’t have high mobility. They usually even have 1) lower mobility, because of a heavy gun 2) no real defense at close range. Both Widow and Hanzo have OS + mobility + good close range damage. That’s just a bit too much, especially when, as I said above, some maps don’t allow for counter (unreachable positions).