It’s almost as if that’s the entire issue that people have a beef with
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You have some significant cognitive dissonance here. Ignoring the writing on the wall.
The issue is not that you can counterswap like we have been able to in ow1.
The issue is that the value of counterswapping increased, not certain of the amount but probably around, tenfold, in OW2.
You cannot deny the value of counterswapping greatly increased. That is the issue players have.
It was no where near this valuable back in OW1. Not even close.
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The fact you guys actually are crying about getting and having to counter more now is hilarious.
It’s like you just completely forgot how the game operates, and want it to suit your own demands.
Sorry that we disagree, but I feel like all this community does is complain about ANYTHING that stops them from playing their precious hero.
I do not have that problem, because I know how to actually play most heroes, so not getting to play what I want, doesn’t matter. I still swap to counter not only the tank, but the DPS and supports as a whole (Hence why I play a lot of Hanzo).
The game isn’t casual enough for your guy’s level of play, is what I’d say.
this 
it was always a “core” part of the game, with unfavorable matchups meaning you were less likely to win, but you could still outplay your counters.
it was never THE CORE that winning and losing almost exclusively revolves around. Now, an unfavorable matchup is almost guaranteed to lose. You still technically CAN outplay your counters, but unless you’re a GM going against a Silver, you’re probably not going to.
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And that’s fine, it’s a chess game, and you gotta’ know the ins and outs. I do not even find “hard counters” exist much outside of certain things like Sombra into Widow.
Everything is mainly a soft counter and that’s too much for people, it seems.
So just reduce the value of AntiNade, StormArrows and Hack on Tanks.
And otherwise, never let Hog, Orisa, or Mauga be meta tier.
I hate to be that guy I relaly don’t wanna seem like im taking anyways side.
Imma just say that now In season 12 the value of counter swapping has went waaayyy down I have seen soooo many people counter swap my tanks to no avail.
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Reason is because of me and my 4 horsemen of the apocalypse also my duo.
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But also just because honestly tanks are actually pretty balanced right now, ever since dva got nerfed I can’t tell who counters who.
I don’t wanna “Agree” with the other dude… but yes some people do just want to play there precious hero 24/7 365 a day
Like yeah you can play Dva into Zarya a looottt of games like a looot of games, but right now isnt one of those ganes.
The game more or less boiling down to “counter the tank” is what is too much for people. It’s a symptom of going to 5v5… but I digress on that can of worms
I mained tank for many many seasons, Rein in OW1, and JQ in OW2. Even now I don’t feel I am forced to counter the other tank unless they’re running Mauga or D.Va. People just are wanting a super casual game, and this is not that.
Well if they want this F2P game to thrive, they better find a way to “casualize” it, because I don’t think the “super srs” crowd will sustain it over time
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So it’s not an issue for you because you have fun playing so many heroes. You are happy to counterswap. I can understand that. You’re having fun.
What about people who don’t like any hitscan heroes? What about tank players who only enjoy 1 or 2 tanks? Are you going to yell or type at your Reinhardt “my tank is throwing” who doesn’t swap because that’s the only hero that player enjoys? You shouldn’t. You should see the problem is with the game, not the player. Because the value of swapping is too strong now.
Games are meant to be fun. But when you’re punished so hard for playing the heroes you find fun, that is a problem. It might not be a problem for you specifically, but for the game as a whole and the general playerbase it is a problem.
I find this ironic. Theres an argument for Counterswaps can be seen as more casual because you’re taking the easy way out. Counterswapping makes the game far easier. Why try harder on the hero you want to play when you can take the easy path to victory and just counterswap?
Not swapping is more of a challenge.
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I meaaann you could just play QP I guess?
Like I said its not like your gonna lose every single even the majority even 50% of your games just because someone “Counters” you.
Not right now when the games balanced at least.
If your a shot caller your probably gonna have like a 60% win rate if Im being completely honest XD.
It’s the same in QP.
If I’m going to sweat I might as well earn points for shiny weapons while I’m at it, with (arguably) better matchmaking to boot.
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How do you know your second tank will even switch? In my experince they usually didn’t.
If someone wanted to pmay Ball into Sombra reaper and my other tank was hog or something we were already fighting a 5v6 anyways.
You can still play the heros you want you have an ENTIRE TEAM! To help you!
You only need 1 person to wake the hell up, this person is your “Second tank”.
There are some instances where yes you just have to switch, but right now I think its being blown waay waaaayyy out of proportion.
That’s the thing, it won’t thrive regardless. There is now competition, and this game has no real appeal left. I honestly think Overwatch is actually doomed to decline into “maintenance” mode, which is just maintaining it’s final patch until they turn off the servers.
And more people should embrace that fact, instead of just sticking to 1-2 heroes and not learning even the basics of others.
And it wasn’t strong before? Brig to Tracer, Moira to Genji, Sombra to Doom? Those were hard counters, where the person could not even be played. This is why I am advocate for 6v6 to return, because all 5v5 has done is create a cycle of boredom.
It’s not the game’s problem though, that the PLAYER BASE refuses to actually learn. You cannot say it’s on the game, when it’s both the player base and game at the same time. Stubborn player base with egos alongside incompetent devs and management.
Yes, because letting someone run wild and not challenging them on heroes they match up with, is “taking the easy way”. When in reality, all I did was even the odds, and they don’t like that they now have to try.
I will call this as I see. “Let me play what I want, and farm you, and don’t you dare swap or you’re a coward.”
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Gonna give you a like for this, at least you acknowledge that 5v5 has greatly dulled the dynamics of the game
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Sometimes i swap. Sometimes i don’t. Its not that i don’t want to learn new heroes. Its that there are many heroes i don’t see as fun to play. Being forced to swap to heroes i don’t think are fun to play, make for a gameplay experience that is not fun. Regardless of win or loss.
So what do you find boring exactly? I thought you were having fun counterswapping?
Why should a player learn a hero they don’t think is fun or interesting? The sheer value that counterswapping has is either forcing the players to play heroes they don’t find fun, or forcing the players who are playing the heroes they find fun, play against conpositions that are not fun for them. Once again, yes this happened in ow1, but it wasn’t as powerful/free value and didnt hurt the fun as much.
This existed in ow1 yes, but the value and effectiveness of it was no where near what it is in ow2. So the fun of the game is severely diminished.
So what is it that is a cycle of boredom to you? Is it boring to keep counterswapping? Is it unfun to keep counterswapping? (This is what im arguing, the easy value of it is what encourages counterswapping, which leads to games being less fun).
If they start out on pharah or echo while i start out on junk. I don’t complain. If they start on soldier and lose 1, or often even WIN the fight and swap to pharah just to get that easy value. I’m going to complain. Same can be said about tank swaps.
The game design and format encourages it since it is such strong and easy value. Makes games less fun aka as you said it, cycle of boredom.
it is a newer dimension of crying for tank players. So pathetic.
Then this game is not for you.
Same DPS every game mainly. I play Hanzo a lot, and running into Sombra/Tracer every game is boring. Swap to Cass, make them feel the same boredom.
Because the game is meant to be played as a chess game. This beats this, that beats that, etc etc. As I said before, this is not the game for people who just want to play what they find fun only. There’s a reason one tricks are usually despised.
The boredom isn’t with tanks getting countered. The boredom comes from seeing the same DPS every game. I still swap, I still find it somewhat fun.
I’ll say it again, it just really comes off as Overwatch is just not for you.
6 v 6 Overwatch was for me.
5 v 5 Overwatch is not.
Thus threads like this often entice me to comment.