Sure, part of the problem is that McCree has always been OP (really!) but the real problem isn’t so much his balance, but the absence of those who are utterly undertuned, UP and are sitting around on miniscule pick and and win rates.
This is important as pickrate is not influenced only by power. If he is balanced then there would be no reason to nerf him.
This always happens and will always happen, if its not one its another. Who do you want to dominate next is what you are asking.
This is very true. If you look at GM Genji has a high pickrate in quickplay but a low pickrate in Competitive. It means he is very popular but not too powerful. McCree has a high pickrate in QP and Comp which indicates he’s both popular and too powerful.
I think Fan the Hammer is the only issue. FtH is the only part of his kit that invalidates Reaper, Symmetra, and Mei. So if McCree is good, those 3 aren’t worth the spot in comparison. If McCree is bad, the other 3 get some time to shine but that’s very unfair to McCree.
They’ve tried so many ways to change it and it’s just not working after all these years. It’s time to ditch it even if it’s “super cool and stuff” lol. He should just stick to medium range with a stun+roll to create space.
imo maybe something like:
- Keep FtH’s execution animation but first he dumps out all bullets and puts in special rounds. Ultimately giving FtH a short cast time. The new bullets now deal 10 damage each, but inflict Anti for 3 seconds on the targets they hit (he grazes targets with FtH with poison infused rounds). It will have a 10 second cooldown. It essentially makes him a threat at close range or far ranged if he’s lucky, but on the merits that his target is vulnerable for 3 seconds. Not because he deletes them with one FtH. Also makes sense because he really respects Ana and was a part of Blackwatch… So him having sneaky bullets makes sense on a lore/personal level too.
- Dumps bullets, puts in 6 special rounds. They deal 5 more damage than a normal bullet (essentially ignoring armor) and the pierce through 50% of special defenses (so Ana’s 50% def buff becomes 25%; Bastion’s becomes 10%). If he hits a critical shot he pierces through all their defense buffs. Basically armor piercing.
- Take 0.75 to 1 second(s) to relax and puff his cigar/whatever he has in his mouth. He takes 20% less damage and disables headshots for 4 seconds (unboosted Snipers will need to hit him 3 times). It allows him to fend off snipers or even take care of them. It also helps cover his larger than normal hurtbox for a bit. Maybe even heal him for 5HP sort of as a joke (look Mercy, his Cigars aren’t bad for his health after all~). The heal could be up to 75HP if they want to make it less of a joke-reference and an actual heal.
TL;DR all my dumb ideas are just ways to work with his kit while denying him the ability to have a pocket Roadhog/Reaper on demand. He’s a medium ranged fighter at heart and the Stun+Roll can be used to create or eliminate some distance. The game also needs more forms of Anti so Ana becomes less valuable and therefore scrutinized less. It also allows newer forms of Tanking/Healing to be introduced (Barrier HP, Armor HP, abilities with a secondary effect for cleansing, etc).
As I said, pick rate is not an indication of power. Taking into consideration only one number is naive and mistaken.
Right, I looked at both quick play and comp for 2 points of data and not just 1 number. As a general trend people play the heroes they like in Quickplay and the heroes that win in Comp. Genji isn’t great in this meta but a lot of people like to play him so if you go from Comp to QP his pickrate jumps +450%. McCree has a similar situation going on but less dramatic and his pickrate increases by about 20%. This might be skewed a bit because winning is generally popular.
How would you find a powerful character with stats?
If you really want to make a good analysis you need to consider all the numbers not just one and conveniently the one that supports your argument. This is one of the reasons is difficult to take these posts seriously.
Let me give an example, how would you explain his low win rate, the fact that he is not even in the top three damage outputs in the dps category, that he has more deaths than most dps, he has less eliminations than others, etc. Doesnt look so broken now.
Okay well. Against the next 6 top damage heroes McCree generally:
- has 2 more eliminations but only dies 0.35 more times per game than other heroes (that’s less than 1 more death per game).
- his win rate is down by 1.6% but it’s not surprising in the for the damage category specifically as other heroes are specifically good on a handful of maps. For example Sym has a 4% higher winrate than McCree but McCree get’s picked 12 times more often.
- if you want to look at something like gold medals then McCree earns 15% more of them than other heroes.
Damage output without kills doesn’t really actually effect the team power. It’s why Widow (in previous metas) has been an extremely strong pick despite her low damage per game. Dealing 200 damage in an instant and sending an enemy back to spawn is worth more than 1000 damage that is getting healed off.
The only relevant stat he’s underperforming in is deaths but his kills more than make up for it.
Look at the discussion, that they have no idea how McCree is played on Top while discussed about Top pick and win.
For the hell. Top McCree stay on SAFE distance and relies on Primary Shoot.
While you all complain about Fth + Stun in CLOSER Distance. Complete opposite.
It doesnt change at all, if you changed Fth whatever you want, McCree will be still picked.
But you really can’t call him a ‘mobile’ hero or imply that you would pick him for mobility. That’s just lying to yourself for the sake of trying to dramatize his power.
Like I said I’m fine with people calling for nerfs but saying ‘pick Mccree when you need a mobile hero’ is dumb
This is true. FTH is more of an issue at lower ranks… but it’s still hilarious watching OWL and watching back to back FTH by the pros tho
His eliminations are very much in tune with other heroes, some have a better number so that is not an indication of being too powerful in that sense.
His win rate is similar, not the best not the worst which is another indication that there is no overpoweredness on his part. Sym is a hero that is used on specific situations which has been explained before. It would be better to compare him to similar heroes in which his win rate does not exceed the average.
This is actually mistaken, take a look at it again. Other heroes like Genji, Soldier or Ashe have better ratio in this stat.
He is not the top in either category which shows he is not too powerful either way.
His kill to death ratio is not better than others.
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He’s averaging about 10% more kills than the next 6 damage heroes. Sure, he’s not the top but among his direct competition he’s comfortably above average.
Gold medals specifically McCree beats the next 6 heroes except 1. I think this category isn’t important but some people put stock into it so I included it.
Winrate is misleading. Lower pickrate heroes (except Reaper/Torb lul) generally have higher winrates the lower their pickrate. This is almost always the case in the damage category (because the category has such a high amount of potential picks)
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Eh - you know what i’m done with this. I don’t think these statistics are going to sway your opinion so i’ll concede.
You’re right. McCree isn’t good he’s pickrate skyrocketed after he received 4 consecutive buffs was a pure coincidence. Most of the player base here is wrong for complaining and all the posts about McCree are from baseless whiners. McCree is perfectly balanced he’s pickrate is high because a bunch of people realized they love playing him suddenly at the same time in direct contradiction to the previous statement.
Flashbang + FanTheHammer + Roll + FanTheHammer
25+(50 x 6)+0+(50 x 6) = 625 damage
And I’m less concerned about moving McCree in the meta, as I am getting more Tank players.
And changing this would certainly impact Tank players.
Also explain the rest of the numbers. The ones you explained are obvious. The one’s you didn’t don’t seem to add up
EDIT: Let’s not concentrate on the irrelevant.
Yes is a considerable way, if they did the same to StormArrow.
Since those are the only two “ranged bodyshot” things that melt a Tank in the game.
Although I guess EchoBeam could be thrown in there too.
But still not the top, so its still not an indication of OPness.
Sorry this is not true I double checked, you would have to provide me with your source.
This is not true, there are heroes who have low pick rate and low win rate and the other way around.
Well I suppose that makes sense…
I take it back.
The stats point to him being more than fine.
No one said he isn’t good but he isn’t OP either.
It actually didn’t check. His last buff was around october and his pick rate didn’t skyrocket, in fact people dind’t complain about him until around february when he became meta and no changes to him had been made.
It’s a vocal minority, I see 2 posts about McCree in the main screen and if I go down I found another one.
I’m sorry the actual facts don’t support your argument.