So, about the Genji buff

General Discussion
1

Specifically to Deflect.
We’re ignoring the damage buff.
We’re ignoring the buff to make his alt-fire closer.

What I’m interested in, and equally worried about, is the buff to Deflect.
Specifically, this one…

Genji

Deflect

  • Duration increased from 1.5 to 2 seconds
  • Deflect can now be cancelled manually

“Deflect can now be cancelled manually.”
So, why is this an issue?
Combining Deflect with alt-fire (instantly deploys 3 shurikens, unlike primary-fire), and/or Swift Strike.

Deflect is put up, instantly. In fact, the actual Deflect effect goes up prior to the animation and visual effect.
Genji’s Alt-Fire is done, instantly (when not firing beforehand).
Genji’s Swift Strike occurs instantly :tm:.

Genji gets the added benefit of being able to bait out abilities, or react extremely quickly to enemy abilities without locking himself into Deflect (a major reason why a Genji who deflected during their ult, wasted a third of their ult). This is a good thing.

But, Deflect also goes down instantly, and has no apparent delay between cancelling or ending Deflect- and firing an alt-fire volley or using Swift Strike.

Unless you are a beam hero (Symmetra, Winston, Zarya, and Moira)- you can’t really get around this at all. You’d have to CC him out of Deflect which, isn’t easy.

In contrast, Genji can now get you low- and Deflect to prevent you from using any of YOUR Defensive Cooldowns (which would otherwise be negated by Deflect), and then cancel it instantly with an Alt-Fire.
Previously, he could only cancel Deflect with Swift Strike, leaving him without any form of retreat or ability to push further unless he got a kill.

But now, he can combo an Instant-cast Deflect with an Instant-Cancel Deflect whenever he feels like it, to do an Instant-cast Alt-Fire.
This doesn’t add a whole lot more damage to him overall, and probably won’t do a lot to buff him outside of Blade.

But it does remove a large portion of the penalty in popping Deflect in that, it was a commitment. You couldn’t just turn it off and go back to killing people or retreating unless you used Swift Strike which left you with NO COOLDOWNS at all.

My fear isn’t one of great importance, nor is it one of major concern in my eyes- but is a concern and I felt I should voice it.
I feel as though this could be solved by giving him some sort of downtime where he cannot take (certain?) actions after cancelling Deflect.

What are your thoughts on this change?

What are your thoughts on my proposed solution?
How would you change it?

CONSTRUCTIVE criticism only, please.
Mindlessly bashing a hero and or their players, or saying things such as “remove it” or “revert it” is not constructive criticism. :purple_heart:

8 Likes
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I agree on that you can just fake-out the deflect and attack again with no delay:

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Man I do what this buff does by default anyways. Any Genji at a decent rank can do this. As Genji you typically try to keep yourself near walls, and near climbable objects, exactly so you can cancel deflect or give your self a quick burst of height, or maintain your airtime to dodge. This change is actually kinda pointless considering how common cancels are. Its a quality of life. I could live with or without it as it really doesnt affect my play style much. At the ranks this would be useful in, the average skill level is so low that Genjis werent getting properly punished for misusing deflect anyways.

His damage and spread change is actually kinda something though. Might see some good things from it. Am excited.

2 Likes
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You can just cancel and shoot now from every position with no wall or swift strike needed, without delay.
And that’s nothing?
Ok…

5

This actually encourages bad positioning and a waste of deflect, your literal lifeline.
Necros says these things because his entire playstyle and image is about flashy plays. This helps flashy people who like to show off APM, but ultimately will leave you without reflect in an area you probably shouldnt be in. He can right click no faster than before as far as Im aware.
I promise you that deflect canceling was already used. All this means now is Genji might do it out in the open where he has no walls to climb

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chiming in. 4k peak dps highest 3.8 genji. also smurf between silver-dia.

His deflect cancel on paper sounds good but it isnt really that op. The only time this is noticeable is a solo 1v1 when out of position/hard dove. And when ulting. Most genji play is dash in RMB spam / back pedal / deflect if needed, building ult/putting pressure.
The only time your gonna cancel this deflect is if you dive cree/ashe for example and they are alone. And all it awards is a 1 extra rmb shot if you choose to cancel. But if u choose to cancel you still get punished. If you dive cree, 180 shoot deflect shoot again. He can still flash you and your dead.
If you dive ashe deflect RMB cancel it. She can just boop away.
Sounds good on paper but when applied ingame. Your just canceling deflects when they stop shooting. People think your gonna dash in deflect, cancel, 1 shot with new spread, dash out. In reality you just dash in eat all the same counters/problems he had before. And the fact that several characters primary basic fire. Completely nullifies one of genjis main abilities in itself is enough cause to deem it fair, and not op.
And during your ult. You could either ult and get stunlockd/CCd/booped away. and waste it(without nano) Or deflect and MAYBE deflect the stun/widow shot/w.e. But now you wasted most of your ult. Isnt fair you get so heavily punished by half the roster when using it. And punished by the other half when not using

3 Likes
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This isn’t even true. There have been many times where I’ve casted deflect, and died to something that would’ve been deflected and the ability still went on cooldown. It doesn’t come instantly.

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How ping works =/= How the game works

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I’d call it ping if I died and my deflect didn’t go on cooldown. If you’re trying, you can reproduce it in a custom game. It’s rare but when it happens it sucks. There’s a small amount of time between activation and actual effect.

You can argue that there’s no time to react to that window because there’s no animation or sound cue that early, and I’ll agree with you on that. The window is nevertheless there.

10

I’d argue the ability to dash out of a situation as we see good Genjis do (typically Ghost Dashes) is more valuable than Deflect as an escape.

Yes, therefore making the character less skilled. No?

“My fear isn’t one of great importance, nor is it one of major concern- but it is a concern.”
“It does remove a large portion of the penalty in popping Deflect”.

To do so before, as Vae said- you’d need to be actively positioned in a place where you can cancel it with a wall climb. No longer the case.
Nevertheless, thank you for your input on this!
My DPS is Masters at best if I play non-aim-intensive heroes (Sombra, Mei, Symmetra) where I can abuse utility and gamesense as a Main Tank specialist, but my knowledge on DPS has always fallen flat.

Okay, I didn’t actually know this! I always figured that the cooldown going off but not taking affect was similar to how you can fire off a projectile and then die, and it despawns despite having been fired 6 years before you died.

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Any time you use deflect as genji. You dont want to cancel it. And if you do. there is nothing to deflect anymore. In a situation where its a 1v1 and u can dash deflect / RMB cancel deflect. That doesnt change much. you can still flash,bap e,boop w.e

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Dash is useful but the reason why deflect is a better tool is for failed dives, which come into play a lot considering all the healing shields and health happening around now. Deflect is what buys you your time to walk back into range for getting resources or to find a spot for high ground, or for if youre getting chased down, this will now give you 2 seconds of stalling for cooldowns. both are very important for Genji. 4.1k peak Genji main here.

I dont think it makes him less skillful at all. If you ask me this kind of raises his skill ceiling in a roundabout way, because even more decent Genjis might get into the bad habit of using deflect offensively with no other means to get out. If he does this, his last hope for survival is his mobility. He’ll get punished for using deflect so out in the open.

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So, the basis for my concern was the instantaneous nature of Deflect being cancelled and an alt-fire being shot out.
Someone’s not going to want to fire Sleep Dart at a Genji with Deflect up, especially now that the duration is 2 seconds. Yes?

So, if Ana is- let’s say 50hp in close proximity to a Genji using Deflect, who DOESN’T have Swift Strike, she’d try and wait it out as a testament to skill (gamesense via ability timings).

This is taken away, as you can now cancel Deflect instantaneously and fire in that very same second. Factor in ping, and it will be literally impossible to respond.

This isn’t like, a game-breaking concern of mine. Just a worry that he’s being dumbed down, however minorly.

Thank you ALL for spending the time to respond to my thread with these replies, though I may not get to all of them, it is certainly enlightening. :smiley:

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Can’t wait for all the QQing from Genji mains once the deflect doesn’t come through live.

I’m still okay with the damage and spread nerf though.

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Theres actually no reason it wouldnt go up. I doubt id even find myself using it that much. And dont you mean buff?

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i wont qq. my newest smurf is 2k sr with a 96% wr on genji with 1 lost game and like 30 wins? 86 deaths and over 1k elims. Ill still have my fun. If your NA ill jump on my diamond and hopefully play you

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Hello! Thanks for taking the time to respond to my thread.
However, it’d be greatly appreciated if you could give actual constructive feedback on the topic for why you agree or disagree with the topic at hand. :smiley:

In this instance, you could debate WHY you think the Deflect buff shouldn’t come to live, or if it should be changed before it does.

18

Wow. Come to the Korean servers and carry me please.

Our servers are also filled with decent Genji players and smurfs able to climb to at least mid diamond and even to low masters.

Now I’m curious on how much these buffs will effect the genji main playerbase IF it goes through.

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he isnt being dumbed down. The timing to deflect is still there. So that portion is same as always. Him canceling it with RMB is what every1 seems to be scared of. But that isnt a common thing that will happen. Only time it will is in a straight up 1v1. And even than as ana you can nade floor. cree flash above. ashe boop away. etc . If its a team fight and i dash on you as ana. And you have no nade and i deflect and plan to rmb cancel it and you are not dead. I will be. Doing the RMB cancel means i am fully committing to the kill. I blew all my cds on it. Previously you where committed to the defensive aspect, Now you can be committed to the offensive. Both still punishable

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They wont. Piss-lo wont even notice, and high tiers wont change their positioning anyway. Itll be quality of life, and some help in niche encounters.

At most masters and above Genjis will lower their sens a little because they wont need to flick from wall to person as fast as possible anymore. Woahhh! Big change.

2 Likes