Smurfing is still a BIG problem, CHANGE MY MIND

General Discussion
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The most popular argument for “smurfing is not a big issue” is that with how the SR system is designed, players who smurf will get to their rank very fast, so it doesn’t really affect majority of the gaming experience in the bigger picture.

As a number’s guy, I don’t believe this statement is well founded, here’s why. Based on the recent streamer “dafran soldier to top 500” or “samito flex to gm”, we can expect a high rank player spend around 50 games to get to their true rank. You can argue that is pretty fast especially when someone like kabaji can do it in a 12 hour sitting based on a recent video he released. However, there’s one big aspect we are not counting, which is that ONE smurf ruins the “fair competitive” experience for other ELEVEN players. Also, base on my personal experience, unlike majority of the players in mid tier, people who play in higher rank (master or above) mostly have not just 2 but 3 or more accounts, even some streamers we know have 5 to 6 and that’s somehow a common thing. Do understand that majority of the players are midtier casuals who can only spend a couple of two to three hours sitting a week to play the game.

So if you really put this number together, I’d argue that a small portions of the players (in high rank) who put enormous amount of the time into the game are constantly affecting the gaming experience of a huge percentage of the players (casual, midtier) who may only have around 10 hours a week to play the game.

The one thing I’ve constantly seen streamers saying the reason they do this “whatever to gm” thing is to proof “elo hell doesn’t exist”. I personally find it ironic that the more they do it, the more they are tilting the numbers to make elo hell really exist for unlucky opponent in low ranks who have to face them and just accept the loss.

And yes, sometimes you might enjoy the game because you have a smurf on your team. Even I personally have experienced that little joy, but later find it to be a very, very pathetic way to feel happy about playing this game. It’s almost like I keeled and praised the players for coming from above and donating me a free win. The way to determine whether you enjoy a competitive experience should not be depending on whether or not you get a smurf on your team, it’s plain wrong. Hence the reason I quoted “fair competitive” in previous paragraph, no matter you win with a smurf or lose on the other side, it’s not right either way.

This is definitely not a slam at the streamers, in fact, I personally watch many OW streamers and think they have great personalities. However, I just find it very difficult to resonate with some of them regarding this issue. I’m not a high rank player, mid high diamond at best, and I still enjoy the game very much, which is why I hope we have a healthier leading community starting from the pros and streamers to make this game great again.

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It’s not a big problem for the simple reason it’s not corrupting the over all SR system. It’s just one of those really annoying things one has to put up with in any game with a ladder system, even in real life.

The entire SR system seems to be based around playing 100s of games in a season and the whole smurf this or that evens out over time. So it’s not holding players back, it’s just as I said, annoying to some.

but I don’t know how one could go about changing the minds of mostly lower SR players about it. As so many seem to honestly think, despite the math in no way working, that every random player doing a bit better is like this untouchable high GM 4.7k+ boogie man. When the truth is a whole lot closer to it’s some random failed plat poking around in very low gold or silver.

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agreed, Smurfing is a problem in game and on here in the forums. Its very annoying because they already see themselves as “High Road Kings” and everyone below them as fodder. They dont realize how much thick mud is in between that people have to climb out of that its NOT as easy for all players to achieve, because of these Smurfs (bad toxic behaviour ones). It does mess with the SR system with mid and lower ranks, making it harder if not near impossible for those trying to climb to get out. Granted its not an every game situation, but its still there.

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With only 350 hours on the game, less time on comp, I have not had any major issues with smurfs. I have had maybe 3-4 games where smurfs have ruined it. But I move on with my life because not every game is going to be like that, and rather I take it to improve myself.

I have had no issues with climbing by the way, so smurfs are not proving to be problematic.

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Good to know, but I guess my problem is centering around competitive. Because Smurfs tend to mostly play competitive game after they get to lvl 25, so I guess qp players don’t get affect as much.

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Don’t worry silver is just really good right now you dint get the memo.

It’s totally normal for hanzos to never miss headshots like the last one I just faced.

ROFL at anyone who honestly thinks that SR means anything right now. The amount of smurfs and deranked ****** in lower elo is so hilariously out of hand.

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I am a competitive player, I said I have 350 hours on the game entirely.

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what region do you play in? im really curious because im wondering if player pools are different lets say in the US, East Coast, Central, West Coast, etc.

I play on the East and I swear its one of the most rambunctious bunch of players ever since I started with Counter-Strike 1.6 and World of Warcraft.

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US east. My career profile is open if you’re curious

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Dont care about career profiles. This community has found a way to make those toxic, as you’ve seen in that other post from the passive-aggressive shill.

Northern or Southern East coast? thats as far as im asking because maybe, just maybe its 2 different servers or communities above and below the Mason-Dixon line.

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I’ve increased SR just about every season (also went up a rank almost every season) but okay I guess that doesn’t matter.

And I don’t think there’s a server difference? But I’m northern. Doesn’t matter though, the matches are all the same dude.

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What I am arguing is that, the math is not as simple as people think. Let’s say 4 gm streamers start 4 alt accounts with total of 100 hours put in before all of them get to their actual rank in a week span, which means they are affecting 1100 hour of user total playing time. For a casual gamer who has to go to school or work (not as a streamer) who gets to play 10 hour a week. In the most unlikely scenario, even if each casual are so unlucky that their entire 10 hours run into one of the smurfs, there are still 110 players get affected in that one week, and remember, thats the case when all of their game run into smurfs. Sounds terrible, isn’t it?

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too many people are blind and ignorant to understand. You are hitting the nail on the head though.

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Ohoh I see, misread my bad. Good to know there’s different story and perspective.

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but over all it still doesn’t approach the level of being a true problem as much as it’s a perception of a problem. It’s very much like the stats behind how people die or get hurt in their homes. Yet we all have heaters, stoves, bleach, parents with little kids still buy laundry pods (don’t understand that one myself) and ladder etc.

yet how many of us are truly effected by any of it?
I’ve said this before the real issue with smurfs, throwers, leavers, toxic players and so on isn’t that they hold players back from ranking up over time. It’s that they make wanting to play the 150+ games a season or whatever to reach a goal SR nearly insufferable for some players.

Soooo yeah in a way they impact ranking up and how/when people play or don’t play but not in the way people project it being a problem.

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No, you change Blizzard’s mind.

That’s them that said they don’t consider it that big a problem.

So stop asking players to do what you should be asking Blizzard for.

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Couldn’t agree more. MM is broke AF.

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I appreciate your opinion. I still think it IS an issue not just a made-up perception because precisely how many people are affected by it. Just to further analyze my number, if I told you instead of 110 players run into smurfs for 10 hours, there are 1100 players (who plays 10hr/week) run into smurfs for 1 hour in that week. Sure,1 hour doesn’t seem much at first. But for a 10hr/week casual player, it’s a HUGE deal. As seagull and samito pointed out, climbing is grinding, and around 60% winrate is about the good grinding sweetspot. I’d argue that one hour of running into smurfs for those 1100 players MATTERS a lot for them because it literally takes up 10% of their weekly playing time. And if they feel the frustration because of that and quit playing the game, further stop watching overwatch league altogether? Blizzard lose viewships = loss of ads money, less people buy skins, so on and on. A game doesn’t just survive based on marketing to new players, especially when it comes to a game like OW that has been out there for 3 years. It takes maintainese of community and constantly improving to make the gaming experience enjoyable for all tiers and kind of players. Oh yeah I do think if smurfing is causing people to quit playing this game, it IS a problem.

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Even if smurfing by itself isn’t a big problem, it contributes to an overall problem of skill variance within ranks, especially in the middle where most people are. In fact I would say alt accounts are the least likely reason for someone to be lower in rank than skill, as the matchmaker’s confidence in their MMR is low and they move very fast to the rank they “belong” in.

I would say the most obvious and prominent reason for skill variance is simply that players improve outside of competitive long after they first get placed and the matchmaker becomes “confident” in their MMR. Their skill level has changed but the matchmaker can’t magically know that when they queue up. They have to prove it by grinding through many many games to climb to where they “belong.” Instead of 50 games for a GM player to get from 2500 to 4000, most of those games occurring in diamond+, you have a diamond player in silver and gold and plat for 200+ games. I would argue that this is relatively common as well.

While I have my reservations about structuring OW around 2-2-2, I do think it will help with this issue. Players who “belong” higher take even longer to get there when they end up in games that are unwinnable at hero select. Furthermore they are guaranteed to play their role, and their SR is based only on games at that role. So say a dps main who could hardly ever play his best hero before will now be almost certain to be able to play it. That plus the soft MMR reset, which might make things a mess for a bit but I think will be a net positive for sorting the skill variance out.

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LMAO thats exactly why its a huge problem. You’re playing a match at 1200sr, where 20 sr and 20 minutes of your resources are the line. 12 different people squirming for +/- 20sr at a place on the ladder the game says should be bottom 6% of the entire playerbase in terms of game sense, mechanical ability, and coordination.

Except what happens is the the lowest effective player skill is 1450 and the highest is 3710. Now what? You’re fighting to win in a game that ‘normalies’ to low-gold, 2200-ish.

Its called skill rating for a reason. People are supposed to have faith in the fact that if they play like they’re in the bottom 10% at a rank that is bottom 6%, they should have a decent chance of winning and ranking up. If my match is taking place at the bottom 6% of the ladder, it should contain individuals with provably bottom 5%-8% ability. It almost never does.

You shouldn’t have to be gold/plat level skill to leave mid bronze…ever. And this happens all over the ladder all the time, making sr in its current form totally meaningless.

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