Should matchmaker use MMR or only SR?

Competitive Discussion
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I constantly see discussion related to this topic, mostly from players who feel that matchmaker is rigged by using MMR. Or from players who simply want only SR and not hidden rank. So I would like to post my opinions, predictiond and positives and negatives to conclude if removing MMR would be better for game.

Current overwatch competitive system is using MMR(not visible rank) which I imagine as number just like SR is to avoid confusion with +3-3 stuff. Matchmaker is creating games with both teams having same average MMR if thats possible. Basicly giving 50% chance to win for both teams. Sometimes matchmaker will create games with lower chance when player pool is too small and waiting would be too long. At worst is your chance to win 40%. Games with possibly less chance are not created. By my experience are games like this usualy created only at the bottom or top ranks where player base is small. Odd play hours are often reason too, again small player base is reason.

I think that MMR is more precise representation of player skill than SR because it is directly affected by player action. SR is a lot more affected by actions of other players and other different events as leaving match or by using voice chat to either help win or lose if people are raging or tilting in voice. Player can play well, keep his MMR higher than SR but lose match simply because he will tilt someone for example and player will throw.

So what is better? Match players by using MMR or SR? I will try to present few points or things which are/would be affected by it.

*INTELLIGIBILITY/SIMPLICITY BY USING ONLY SR:
One rank, simple representation of place in ladder system. Result of own skill, team loss/win and communication. It is possible that winning or losing game is affecting MMR in current system, but probably only very little, because if you climb SR, but play bad, MMR will start pushing SR down by giving less SR for win and taking more for losing. It is not fully explained what is affecting the hidden rank so using only SR would probably make things more simple and players could actualy brainstorm what is affecting SR gain/loss alot better. Question is, if thats a good thing, because it could be abused.

PLACEMENT
I am not exactly sure how would switching to only SR affect initial placement. I dont think it would radicaly affect it tho, because initial placement and after placement bonus is highly win/loss based anyway and not so heavily skill based.

SEASONAL PLACEMENT
Not many people even know why we have seasonal placement right know. Or what is purpose of it. It is kind of double edged sword right now. Basicly seasonal placement is there to correct your SR and bring it closer to your MMR. Were you unlucky and had some throwers or leavers but still played very good? Seasonal placement and MMR is your friend and will try to place your lowered SR closer to your higher MMR. I see seasonal placement as recalibration to make your MMR and SR equal. But problem is that you can win games by having excellent communication and shotcall, but not having so impressive stats. In that case will current placement system and MMR still push you lower. Thats why having MMR and seasonal placement can be both good and bad. There is no point to have seasonal placement if MMR will be removed and only SR will be used.

SMURFING
I think it would be a lot easy to derank account because it would not matter if you played like god few games and then throw few games to stay lower. Overwatch is trying to push SR towards MMR and it is affecting smurfs too. If they want to have fun, they have to throw double amount of games to keep low elo than play games where they can dominate. If not more than double. It is actualy pretty hard to keep low rank and dominate in games in current system because of MMR. Without it? I could dominate 1 match gain 50 sr and completely throw next and lose 50. So deranking and actualy staying at lower elo would be a lot more easy, because it is more easy to affect SR in one match than affect MMR where you need more games to have impact on it. Not only that. Since there is not more stable hidden rank, smurf on your team would affect negatively your stats. Why? Because system without MMR would have to be based a lot more on stats from every individual game. So everyone would be gaining less when smurf would practicaly steal stats. What if you will have thrower or enemy team will have smurf?Tough, because you will be rolled and lose a lot of SR because again same thing, system without MMR would have to rely on stats from individual games a lot more.

LEAVERS
Leaving in current SR/MMR system have direct impact on your SR, but is not affecting MMR. I tested this myself few times during placement games and by leaving 4 games in row. I was gaining more sr per win after as game tried to push my sr back closer to MMR. Same can be actualy used in initial first placement season, where it is better to leave bad game instead of staying and lowering MMR with bad stats. Leaving = no stats so your MMR doesnt go down or up. But without it and with only SR? Left games would have much bigger impact as they would lower own rank significantly more, because there is no MMR to push you back higher.

BOOSTED PLAYER
I believe they would drop back to where they belong a lot faster without MMR, because as I explained above, system without MMR would have to be heavily stat based every individual game.

CLIMBING
Ok so how would climbing work without MMR? I think with only SR would be climbing a lot more chaotic and own SR more unstable without MMR which is working as anchor not so easily changed as SR. Every negative thing as smurfs, leaver or throwers would be more impactfull resulting in higher SR loss because your SR has not connection to more stable MMR. And I dont think games would be more balanced either, not at all If anything it would be worse because players would be moving on the ladder having certain SR but having often different skill. But just as boosters, people with significantly higher skill who try to win would most likely climb faster to where they belong. Normal players who are not smurfs or boosted, would probably experience a lot bigger SR spikes, having episodes of dropping massive amount of SR or gaining it in shorter period of times, more than now without having anchor in MMR.

So yeah thats all, you can challenge my opninins or change my mind, or just share what you think about removing MMR from matchmaking.

7 Likes
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Sr is a product of an averaged mmr.
mmr changes rapidly and effects the games you get immediately.
If it was only one mmr showing you would be masters one game and bronze the next. ( which it kind of feels like ) Sr is just a more stable number to reflect our average mmr.

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I think they should give us one rank. Our SR. And make gaining or losing based off of team wins or losses while doing something to incentivize the use of voice communication in a cooperative and productive manner. This game was intended to be “team based”…but it has strayed far off that path. It’s a coin flip that you get these days at best. This would ONLY work if they found a way to give significant incentive for people to actually play as a team, communicate, and strategize. I think having a clan based system where you could register a team for competitive would be a good start to incentivize team play. The system should only allow you to be apart of one team at a time to prevent team hopping and incentivize people to work with the team they chose instead of giving up at their first loss and tilt. It should also come with a system set up to give bad or good reputation respectively for players who form teams and disband quickly or contrastingly if they have heart and stick it out and put significant effort to make one team work and stay loyal. No doubt you’ll have players who still wont take it seriously and will troll teams. We dont want that. It would be counterproductive to the entire competitive clan based system and what the developers at that point would be trying to incentivize. The developers need to desperately fix their broken basic tutorial…and give us a real one so when new players come into the game they actually know what they are doing and how to play. As it sits now the current system is broke. It’s only good at placing the extremely good and the extremely bad while those somewhere in the middle get coin flips for games every game

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I definitely agree with this, they need to make team aspect of game better. They should give us clans/communities directly implemented into game years ago. Something where players easily make team and could compete as teams so players learn to play OW as team game and not individual game.

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I don’t think you got MMR out of your head, if there is no MMR there is no point in personal based SR. Meaning everyone wins and loses the same amount what you described is happening with the current system where playing average will lose you more SR than a win.

Btw what difference is there if a smurf has to throw 3 out of 4 games or 2 out of 4 he is still ruining 100% in both cases, I don’t get your point at all.

Isn’t that ladder manipulation? The way it is now is pointless anyway, leavers are dead weight so they deserve a lower rank simple as that.

That’s enough reason to party.

The same way the pros have been recommending for years: by winning games lol
No need for silly MMR and PBSR, winning is all that matters.

Yes and no the first part is probably true but it would do wonders for mentality. No point in theories, if there is no earth it can’t be round or flat. Different skill how and why? If SR became the one and only metric it would truly represent skill and not some hidden number that can be manipulated as you explained above.

Gotta love that MMR anchor yikes.

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I had never heard of discord before I got ow. Guess what? It’s clans and communities that we did ourselves, probably better than blizzard could have. maybe because it’s smaller and has less control, but still.
No trust level required to post memes:)

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The thing is, in game clans would not stop people from using third party ones if they wanted too, an if anything could be an extra tool for third party clans to recruit/organize in game.

The big benefit would be that it would give players who want to be able to organize in the game a way to do so and even allow people who don’t want to have to look through third party sites/programs to find a clan the ability to.

Plus it would allow them to overhaul the LFG to not just be for random groups mostly looking to play one time but for people looking to join clans, make clans, or fill spots in their clan team if someone isn’t available. Also potentially allowing them to crack down more on throw groups and groups that are just selling accounts if they wanted too since more people using it would make those groups more visible. It could even lead to some fun in game clan tournaments for each rank.

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You do realize it is a lot harder to climb from low ranks where it is not so much about team play without PBSR right? Smurfs would stay in low ranks forever with same amount of SR gain/loss. Climbing would be harder, boosted players would stay in higher a lot longer. I dont think it is a good idea at all to remove PBSR. If I would go back to my runs on alt accounts, I would need a lot more games with same amount of SR gain/loss as anyone else. Climbing from low ranks would be simply too time consuming.

Because people smurf to have fun, dominating is fun, throwing game is not. If you need to throw more game to have fun in one game, its really not worth the time.

More like abusing flaw in competitive system, but you can say its ladder manipulation yeah. It kind of weird how it works tho. You can get higher final placement if you simply leave games instead of playing bad.

Pros forgot mention to you that if they smurf in low ranks they are gaining like above 50 SR PBSR per match. Thats why they can leave it so fast. Of course you can do just only by winning with standard +24 SR and -24 loss, but time and number of games to do it would be a lot higher.

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But… But… You only have one rank…

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No reason you can’t keep pbsr and mmr. Just don’t match based on mmr. Match on sr.

At the moment you have the insane situation where a garbage Widow with zero kills in a round is the same sr as a Reaper getting 60% kp. I’d argue I’d prefer the Reaper over the Widow any day.

One reason. The Widow has crap mmr, so gets carried, or 5 poor schmucks who gave a real issue.
The Reaper gets poorer team mates that he has to carry.

Bull crap system.

Let the Reaper storm up with fair games, and let the crap Widow sink down, until they can actually hit shots.

As to smurfs. It’s quite easy to get 30% or lower wr and still crush people. I’ve seen it done.

Eg, point B Anubis. Genji dragon blades, gets 5 kills, runs away. He gets potg and can spaff all over his monitor as he’s so great.
But, he’s bladed when team all dead. So no point progress.
Keep on farming enemy team, blading 1v6 regularly, build up Phat stats and still lose.

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The thing I think most people don’t realize is they aren’t getting the 12 players based on making it even. (Most people seem to think if there are 11 players in a lobby people act like the game is already set up 5v6 and is looking specifically for someone to average out the MMR). All the MMR does when matchmaking is give the game a range of people to pull from alongside SR. After the players are in the lobby it splits the teams up as best it can to make them even (of course groups get in the way of that). Yes MMR does partially give incentive people to hunt for stats but they still need to win to actually gain SR. I see a lot of people push for a system that would have you gain or lose SR only based on how you did and all that would do is make it even more important to not play as a team and try to win but to just go out and get the most damage/kills/healing.

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I guess you’re not perceptive enough to read between the lines and deduce what I meant. My apologies for not being able to communicate it in a better way, let me try. I do only have one brain cell. Bare with me. The game should match people based on SR alone, hidden MMR shouldn’t exist. You should gain and lose SR based on wins and losses and not raw stats thus incentivizing team oriented gameplay. Working together. Strategies. Thanks for coming to my Ted talk.

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What is the point of MMR if you wont be matching players based on that?

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I can see the argument for matching people based on SR instead of MMR but MMR should still exist. For the simple reason that it can help accelerate people who are not at the rank they belong yet up to where they should be. Otherwise you have new accounts that belong in diamond spending plenty of time in Gold functionally smurfing until they get there. Yes it does give incentive to just play for stats but you still need to win to gain SR and that should be enough incentive to play as a team.

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To accelerate people to where they belong? If the MMR shows that you’re above average for where you are then you get a boost and vice versa.

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You can still use it for pbsr.

That said, I’d like pbsr metrics to be public.

If people can abuse a system because they know how it works, then it’s a crap system.

If the tutorial wasn’t utter toss and people knew how to group up and work as a team, then people could still be trying to win whilst knowing how they’re expected to play their heroes.

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That’s not completely true. People abuse the current system when they throw and knowing how it works wouldn’t stop that, nor would any change to the system.

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Oh sure. I meant in terms of stat farming.

One way to stop that is to make it crystal clear that mmr only positively adjusted on wins. So if you get 100 kills, but you lose, then no mmr uptick. Means players should prioritise winning over stats.

As to smurfs that throw. Smurfs can easily pop off and manage low win %. That’s a whole other issue.

But pbsr a thorny subject anyway. Especially as main tank. If one, or more team mates suck, I’m going to die a heckuva lot. As Lucio or a mobile dps I can lose a game and achieve low deaths. As Rein, kind of hard to get out if out matched.

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It shouldn’t be. People don’t seem to understand that it only compares your stats to people playing the same hero that you did at your rank in a stats/10 min fashion. Of course it weighs certain stats more for different heroes but it only compares you to players you should be on par of.

As for MMR only going up in wins, while good in theory, if anything incentives people to not care in games they think they are going to lose and if nothing else only reinforces the “my teammates are keeping me stuck” mentality. At least now if you lose because you actually had a bad teammate or two or even had someone throwing, you can go in and try and if you do well but still lose be rewarded for that in a small way. MMR never moves much due to one single game no matter how well or poorly you do don’t forget that.

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Clans sound good until you get kicked for not healing enough or something stupid. You think LFG was bad with all the vetting involved and teams breaking up after one bad match, can you imagine the clan drama? Like LFG x10. This comminity will never be ready for that, imo.