Its probably the worst its ever been, which is quite the accomplishment.
Maybe the devs really do hate tank players.
3 Likes
You basically strawmanned a group, said they think a thing with no evidence to based your opinion on and decided that only they think this thing that you have no reason to believe they think in the first place.
Rein does not really open up a lot of DPS to viability relative to the other tanks especially more than the other tanks combined. If I were going to pick people who would support a strong Rein it would be of course Rein mains and Support players, but I would not pretend that only they think that because I have no basis for that assertion.
I also used to play Orisa, I mostly play support now.
Before Orisa / Sigma nerfs, after the barrier patch, we were still seeing some tank variety.
3 Likes
No, itās completely dreadful.
3 Likes
Nope. I would describe the present state of tank balance as an embarrassment.
5 Likes
Strong DoubleBarriers wouldnāt matter so much if speedboost/Dive could just move past the barriers, and Orisa/Sigma were more countered at close range.
1 Like
Rein overtuned , and Zarya because of itā¦ borisa and sigma useless, dva useless, ballā¦
but most importantly CC fest is annoying and always directed towards tanksā¦
horrible experience overall
2 Likes
I wouldnāt say itās bad, itās just bland.
Itās like if you queue Tank, you better be ready to spend 50% of your time on Reinhardt.
And if your DPS arenāt getting kills, and your healers arenāt healing you.
And you have trouble getting them to stand behind your barrier, and push when you push.
Then you lose.
Even if your actions are all the correct motions.
Which can be a rather agonizing experience, especially if you were used to be previously being able to pick Orisa with an offtank, or Sigma with an offtank, and clutch out the game.
2 Likes
Remember that ārace to the bottomā I was talking about?
This is it.
All main tanks suck, tanking sucks. They nerfed almost every tank because whoever is left standing becomes the new target. It was bland a month ago when Rein was the only good tank, now its just a bad joke. And weāve got a new tank buster to worry about.
10 Likes
Well, if you had to pick one Tank combo to be meta to make the most people happy.
Rein Zarya would be it.
Throw in some Winston/Hammond occasionally.
And a bit of Rein/D.va, or Rein/Orisa.
It certainly isnāt perfect, but itās a clear upgrade for a lot of people over DoubleBarrier, or Orisa/Hog.
And you have Mitrovarr campaigning to nerf Reinhardt into extinction so other tanks can see playing time. Maybe heās right. Maybe Orisa, Sigma, and Winston canāt be brought to his level without breaking the game. If that were easy, why wouldnāt they have done something in all this time?
What are the odds that if Rein were nerfed, Sigma/Orisa in their current state would magically become āOPā again?
1 Like
Both Rocktopus and Mitrovarr just wanna play either Sigma or Orisa (with a preference towards Sigma), as a solo main anchor tank, that has decent firepower.
Such that you arenāt stuck in such a passive playstyle of tanking when your team is doing badly.
(I.e. No matter what you do as a Tank, you are going to lose)
1 Like
Iām not down to play a role so awful that only two tanks are viable. I donāt want to play any tanks right now, I donāt care what everyone wants me to play. If the only viable tanks are Rein+Zarya then Iām steering clear.
I donāt care about any of those people, I just wanna main a role, play a few heroes, and not feel like a total chump.
In 2020, Reinhardt is countered by knocking him around like a pinball, that makes me feel like a chump. Obviously, that rules out tanking for me.
Like I said, race to the bottom. Everyone wants you to fill tank but everyone hates the tank you play.
5 Likes
I know what they want, and I certainly respect Rocktopusā opinion. But what Iām asking here is if Rein were suddenly not played, would people suddenly realize that Sigma/Orisaāwithout changesāwere pretty good all of a sudden, much like what happened with Brigitte not so long ago (though there was a change to armor in that case).
Well, I agree with your point, and we can see it in OWL every time Rein gets banned.
But thatās also why Iāve been spending the past 3 months trying to figure out how to throw a monkeywrench into Orisa/Sigma synergy, while also making them good solo-BarrierTanks.
So far the best I got is either weaken Orisa and Sigma at close range.
Or reduce cooldown/regen speed of you get 2x Barrier Tanks.
ā
Buff Barriers, counter at close range
I donāt think itās that theyāre suddenly āpretty goodā
Like, just as an example, letās say Reinhardt currently has a power of 7/10, and Orisa and Sigma have a power of 4/10. Thereās an obvious power imbalance, so we nerf Rein down to 5/10. Suddenly, Orisa and Sigma become much more competitiveābut itās not because theyāre āpretty good.ā Theyāre just as bad as before, but Reinhardt is worse, meaning that any complaints about tanks feeling impotent have not only not been alleviated but have been actively aggravated.
This is basically the situation with Brigitte. It took some pretty crippling nerfs to Baptiste and Moira (who for their entire existence were deemed well-balanced up until the witch hunts against them) for her to not be a niche pick at best, and even then, sheāsā¦ still fairly niche, with Ana and Lucio being flat out better. Brigitte isnāt better (sheās in fact even worse from her rework), her competition is just worse.
Hence, I think itās better to look at buffing Orisa and Sigma in ways that discourage Double Barrier. Realistically, the best option for both a lot of the tanks and a lot of the supports is to pretty much revert them to their release states, with a few changes here and thereāwhy? Well, for Orisa and Sigma, their weakness once upon a time was peeling/brawlingābut these weaknesses got buffed over. For Moira and Baptiste, it was once consistency of healingābut that weakness got buffed over. In both cases, reverting them back to a state where they had these weaknesses would resolve a lot of the frustrations people had with these heroes without neutering them in such a way that their players feel weak or impotent.
4 Likes
Nerf Fortify, fully restore Orisaās barrier, and revert her hp.
Fortify is what lets her hold space like Hog, allowing her to be comboed well with Sigma. Sheās got this tank buster/space enforcer kit that basically make her an off-tank.
Yeah the class is really broken and not balancedā¦
Of tanks are too weak compared to main tanksā¦ (in support class at least low healing=more utility instead but in the tank category for some reason it doesnt work like that)
So shield tanks take over the game. but even there, only Rein and Winston are balanced.
Orisaās shield breaks too fast and if thatās not enough, for some reason they decided it would be as a good idea to buff her fortify. This abillity should be like Widowās venom mine, only effective when people are close, but Orisa doesnt want them to come close. so why trying to based the hero on that abillity instead of her shield.
and lastly, a lazy design. in the support class every new support has some sort of new and amazing utility, with special way to heal. in the dps class there are so many heroes and palystyles already.
so why in the tank category 4 tanks out of the 8 use shields. we need new protection ways and itās really simple to think about them to be honestā¦
anti-movement bubble,mirror, fire wallā¦
If to conclude,
Orisa is too weak.
Sigma needs a small buff but heās in the right path for an off tank
D.va,Zarya & Hog need some sort of buff to be concidered a real tank and not just a little help with good abillity.
and only Rein,Hammond & Winston can really call themselves balancedā¦
Lol, could make it so Fortify is stronger the longer the distance the shot is from.
And weaker when shot at close range
1 Like
Honestly, I think we need to see what happens when Echo releases. You may not want a nerf to fortify after all.