Saying „diff“ isn‘t toxic… or is it?

Edit: Reading the comments, I realize how flawed my attempt at being rational was. This issue is so much more complex than I originally thought and I didn‘t realise how much more there is to it than just: „The term diff isn‘t toxic by definition, therefore typing diff isn‘t toxic“. I was hyper-fixating on the wrong things and failed to see the bigger picture; keep that in mind when reading the following nonsense. :slight_smile:
(I would love to delete what I initially wrote, since I realised how wrong I was, but I think it sparked some interesting responses that are worth reading, which is why i‘m going to leave it as is.)

I want to start by saying that I don‘t use the term „diff“ often and if I do use it, I mostly do so jokingly. I also don‘t care if the term gets banned or censored (like gg ez); I really couldn‘t care less if the term „diff“ gets censored and my problem is mainly that people say that using „diff“ is toxic, because it really isn‘t and pretending that it is and saying that it should be a banworthy offense could lead us down a dangerous path of banning everyone and everything we personally don‘t like. I am simply trying to bring some objectivity in this discussion by bringing up the definition of „toxic“ and seeing if it applies to the term „diff“, so please don‘t make an argument by taking the moral high ground and pretending that I‘m just defending toxic people because I want to be toxic myself because that isn‘t helping anyone.

Now, according to the Cambridge Dictionary, „toxic“ (used informally) means:

a) very unpleasant or unacceptable
b) causing you a lot of harm and unhappiness over a long period of time

With this definition in mind, I don‘t see how simply saying „diff“ could be considered toxic.

Is it unnecessarily rude? Yes.
Does it cause you a lot of harm and unhappiness over a long period of time or is very unpleasant or unacceptable? No.

Should being „unnecessarily rude“ get compared to being toxic or being abusive in chat and therefore be a reportable offense? NO.

You being annoyed by something someone says in the game is NOT abusive chat. Being abusive is inheretly toxic and saying „diff“ is not toxic by definition. You are NOT being harmed over a long period of time and it is not unacceptable. I’d support censoring the term „diff“ to protect people who are easily offended, but I do not agree with the sentiment that people wo use the term „diff“ are toxic and therefore should be banned.

I created this topic because I think that the term „diff“ is a problem. Not because it is toxic and people who use it should be banned, but because there is a group of people that truly thinks it is toxic and use it as an excuse to be toxic towards other people themselves and because there is another group of people that thinks people are just being „too sensitive“.

Let me also add that reporting people who simply use the term „diff“ causes actual toxic behaviour to go unnoticed because they‘re being flooded with reports of people who just used the term „diff“. I also want to add that you‘re not justified to be toxic or aren’t toxic just because the term „diff“ isn‘t toxic. You can still be toxic or abusive by missusing terms such as „diff“. Not everyone who uses the term is toxic and people can be toxic by responding to this term in a harmful way, context matters.

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calls out snowflakes for being snowflakes

expects it to go differently from the way it’s damn-well gonna go

And here I am, outta popcorn.

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Being a Snowflake is fine, censoring a term that has been abused by the community so that sensitive people feel less offended is also fine in my opinion. I‘m not calling out Snowflakes, I just don‘t like how missused the term toxic has gotten.

The replies are probably mostly gonna be unhelpful and I don‘t expect this Thread to turn out any other way than the others who discuss the term „diff“. Just wanted to bring up the definition of toxic and remind people that context matters.

If you‘re out of popcorn, I can share some of my popcorn with you if you want to. :slight_smile:

Butter, kettle, or that cheese/caramel medley they sell in the big tins around the holidays?

Fml, I didn’t get a new this year and now I want one… I wonder if they’re all sold out at wal mart and if any remaining haven’t gone stale yet.

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Looks like it’s time for a Snowflake diff.

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Be careful, you might get reported for saying diff. On that note, I challenge you to a 1v1 so I can Snowflake diff you.

See, thats the problem.
The problem comes from “I feel triggered by this word, ban it, and suspend anyone who says it because I say so”. That is BAD.

Also it doesnt work, just like filters. Because people are not stupid, they can be bypassed and in the end we will end up trying to get people that write “?” suspended.

Yep. This guy gets it.

PS: No, its not toxic. Learn the definition of “Toxic” please. Its not “everything I find offensive” so using that buzzword means nothing.

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I’m still waiting to find out what kind of popcorn so I can decide if I like tc or hate them.

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Maybe stop saying “diff” then?

A quick Google Search shows that it’s a meaningless word except in the context of people trying to rub people’s noses in it in a game of “Overwatch”.

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You just proved how exactly is it toxic. If you come to chat to be rude - you don’t bring anything of value there already. So banning you won’t really be a miss.

The point about “causing harm” is entirely subjective, what words do actually cause harm at all?

And all of this doesn’t matter because every time someone goes to defend word DIFF they do it from a point of what the word means. Which isn’t how people use it. Typical use case of the word DIFF looks like this:

  1. Some SNOWFLAKE gets offended he, the great XxX_GeNjI_AsSaSsIn_XxX, lost a match
  2. He quickly tabs to see some numbers explaining how could that happen despite his greatest skill in the world
  3. Types SUPPORT/TANK DIFF in chat. Crisis averted, his fragile ego is safe.

That’s it. So anyone getting their chat banned for DIFF - meh.

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And how exactly is rubbing people‘s noses in a match of Overwatch toxic?

The definition that you conveniently ignored:

Using the definition from the source you cited, “diff” is toxic behavior. Though I don’t think it should be a bannable offense.

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If you are being “harassed and insulted” over and over and over for simply doing something you enjoy then that is toxic. Someone may have tried their best and just been up against someone better, they can’t help that. That’s on the matchmaker.

Your entire post makes it seem as if you think something Toxic has to last for a long time at a ONE TIME use. Like if I hear Diff once I have to feel bad about that one time for several hours or days. That’s not how abusive behavior works. Abusive behavior can be microscopic little snide comments that you have to hear day in and day out by someone which will wear your mental well being down.
That’s why people who had to deal with bullying as a child often end up with anxiety disorders and depression as adults because they become insecure in themselves. Since the bullying is often a result of them just being who they are. Much like how someone playing to their best ability can have some toxic person come along and say “diff” over and over is just talking down to someone doing their best or trying to enjoy themselves within the rules of the game.

Not me specifically but for others it can. Your opinion here doesn’t matter for anyone but yourself.

Being abusive is when you insult someone repeatedly for no reason. So it is abusive.
Therefor it is toxic. You’re bringing up dictionary definitions earlier but you’ve not bothered to look into what Verbal Abuse is?
Verbal abuse is (among other things) when you use words to DEMEAN someone, to belittle them. So by definition it is wholly toxic to use the word “diff”.

I don’t personally care if someone writes “diff” at me but all the people trying to justify being a-holes is pretty f-ing cringe.
You don’t need the word to play your game, what part of being rude makes any game a better experience?
Seriously, next you’ll all want racial slurs to be called non-toxic the way people keep defending this stuff.

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Dude you literally ignored the qualifier it has lol

Toxic: the quality of being very harmful or unpleasant in a pervasive or insidious way.

Psychological harm from verbal/mental abuse in either online gaming or in real life. It can cause actual psychological scars.

Know Your Psychology. It’s actually a real term, too. That’s also why we have chat rules and stuff in online games, by the way. Maybe read them from time to time?

Come on now… Are you serious? Are you truly that ignorant?

Toxic behavior is the worst kind of behavior one can experience online and through online gaming. Rubbing people the wrong way intentionally to cause a negative reaction is toxic as hell and have no place in any online game.

If you feel the need to rub people the wrong way, why don’t you go rub someone the wrong way at random on the side walk instead, and see exactly how people deal with such behavior in real life, yeah?

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A lot of assumptions here. I know the rules and follow them, thank you. If I ever want to attack someone in chat (which is almost never) - I will do so within the rules.

I don’t say it doesn’t exist, but it has no way to objectively measure so you can’t really easily say “this word causes harm, this does not”. It’s all about circumstances and subjective perception. So it’s useless to argue about for word diff is is harmful or not. The fact that it is rude and brings nothing more is enough to ban it.

I copy pasted directly from the page, there isn’t a qualifier. I don’t know where you’re looking, but it isn’t the same cambridge dictionary that I’m looking at.

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So… I’m definitely the only one hyperfixating on the popcorn at 2:30 in the morning…

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No, the term is by definition not toxic. Not all people use „diff“ just to be rude; it can also be used as a joke or to just trash-talk (which believe it or not, can be fun for people on both sides).

If you come to chat just to be rude you do not bring anything of value, I agree. I don‘t see however how bringing nothing of value to chat is toxic.

Is it subjective though? I‘m pretty sure that there are things you could say to people (over a long period of time) that would cause harm to most people. If people saying that you underperformed in a match of Overwatch causes you real harm and not just annoyance, you‘re absolutely in the minority (and I wouldn‘t mind censoring the term for these people mind you, I couldn‘t care less about if the term is usable or not).

I wasn‘t defending the term „diff“ and I agree that your example is accurate. If someone uses „diff“ to prevent his fragile ego from being hurt, how is that any different from someone wanting to ban „diff“ because their fragile ego is hurt when someone tells them they underperformed in a match of Overwatch? Why are we protecting one group with a fragile ego and not the other? I don‘t belong in either camp by the way, I‘m not offended by people using „diff“ and I don‘t use the term to offend people, I just think it‘s a bit hypocritical that it is NOT okay to say „diff“ to protect ones fragile ego but it IS okay to be awful towards someone who said „diff“ to protect his fragile ego.

The use of „diff“ you described is also NOT toxic and isn‘t banworthy, which was my point all along.

But by attacking someone in the chat, you’re already breaking their chat policies… Good grief…

But it’s not ‘useless’ to debate because toxicity is real, and this game is overflowing with it.

It is objectively harmful to verbally harass someone in an online game, on a psychological level, which is actually most often worse than physical harm, because psychological wounds tend to take years to heal.

The object (Diff - A toxic slang term with the intent of causing a negative reaction in the recepient) of debate here should definitely be enough to get people justifiably banned.