dont think so. the value of words is important.
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Not rigged?
- New account placements start in gold
- Algorithm uses performance based SR but cant tell whose intentionally smurfing?
- Roughly 80% of the playerbase is sandwiched into roughly 1200 sr; its pretty cramped and experience is so haphazard there’s no clear way to measure progress. I’m assuming you are aware of the “protected bracket”.
- Tanks will repeatedly be placed +/-500sr of their rank ( tank population is somehow that tiny)…and roughly 47% of the time it alternates between +500sr and then -500sr…I’ve been a tank main for well over 4 years…i simply refuse to play tank. its a joke.
- Supports and tanks seemingly get balanced for pro league…but the way Pro’s play and regular ranked play…complete opposite.
- LFG fails becuase it only takes 1 loss to break the group…game desperately needs a guild system.
- Solo players and group players lumped into same que.
- A player can have an infinite number of active accounts; depends on the depth of the players pocket…game being 75% off…certainly helps.
my pessimism holds that keeping ranked system as broken as it is, and the difficulty that dev team has had monetizing the game even with 5-10 million active accounts; something activision is probably keen to change with OW2. IMO they are monetizing the game by incentivizing game account purchases. Is this on purpose or mere coincidence; who knows? 
can you rebuttal plz?
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Question 1: if making Overwatch grindier was more profitable than not, what do you think Activision would do: implement grind or refrain from implementing it?
Question 2: does Activision have any algorithmic control whatsoever over how fast players climb?
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Thats hilarious because people claimed the same about open q when it was only comp mode, how its rigged.
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- Most Elo systems assume the player is average. That’s not “rigged”
- PBSR moves smurfs out of low elos faster and it works
- That average SR is ~2300 with a standard deviation being ~600 SR. Meaning, 68% of players fall within 1200 SR. It’s not cramped, that’s a normal distribution.
- Show the data and detail the differences between the “tank” system versus DPS/Support
- All competitive esport games balance around the top; what’s the issue?
- Stop playing with fragile people
- Yep. And the match maker tries to put groups against groups–not always possible given the player pool
- Yep. So what?
- It is a business and businesses attempt to incentivize their customers
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re 9. not when you market it to children. there are laws to stop anti consumerism and promoting gambling to minors.
re 8. hackers and players at the top ranks not wanting to wait 40 mins for a game, deciding to purposefully de-rank to have normal wait times for games…thats what.
re 7. no the matchmaker intentionally forces 50% odds regardless of the rank. As in if you’re a good tank or a support or dps then the game will purposely put you with a bad dps or a bad tank or a bad support against a team that is altogether better than the average of your team, to insure you have to play far better than your average in order to win. Its designed to make you grind. and the difficulty scales with each win.
re 4. why show you when you could just as easily que for 4 tank games. its pretty obvious.
re 3. if its a normal distribution then why do diamond and up players have 20+ min ques for dps? why does it get worse the higher you climb. Its a distribution that incentivizes these players to create smurf accounts and further bloat your “normal distrbution”. Its not a ladder system…its like climbing out of an ocean…into a lake…into a pond…and into a puddle.
re 6. is their some way to know who the “fragile” people are…i need this tool. plz share.
re 5. + re 8. other esports games…have phone numbers attached to active competitive accounts. or some other validation method for ensuring a healthy competitive environment…or as best they can manage.
re 2. somehow the algorithm can tell what a 50% odds game is…but cant tell when a smurf is intentionally playing to stay at a rank…youve seen it and so have i, they spawn lock you the whole game…then die and let you win…but somehow the algorithm can’t see that?
Yep and “loot box” legislation is an evolving body of regulation.
What does deranking have to do with purchasing more accounts?
50-50 sounds pretty fair to me.
Nope. It’s not obvious. I’ll take the inability to show the data as concession.
Because there are more DPS players than tanks and supports. The ranks are normally distributed, the number of players in each role are not. It gets worse the higher you climb because it’s a normal distribution and there are fewer players at that rank.
Yes. People that think they aren’t magically responsible for their gameplay and then complain about a fair system are fragile.
Not all do. OW does this for Top 500. Anyone on the professional scene has vetted accounts.
Yes, it can and it is tested for accuracy. PBSR and SR bonuses after fresh account placements are meant to properly place “smurfs.” If you have the same smurf in your games, they are throwing and you should report it.
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no…i just dont want to rifle through 2 years of dev posts for the one that explains how tanks are being qued in matchmaker to reduce the oh so long dps ques. but hold on…ill go and do the leg work…becuase 4 games is just such a sacrifice on your part.
That is how it works. If you make the claim, you provide the evidence.
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really…pretty sure most tanks will tell you in gold you’ll have 1 game with a gold tank as a silver…and the next game you’ll have a bronze tank…im not going to dig through 2 years of dev patch notes from role que update of august 2019 to wipe the smug smirk off your face…when any tank could prove it with 4 codes in their replay. Ill concede that im just plain lazy and no more. smile away.
It doesn’t really matter what “most people will tell you.” The SR range below Masters is +/- 1000. Show the data that tanks are unfairly matched. If you can’t, then I will assume you made it up and the topic requires no further discussion.
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An SR range of +/- 1000 is NOT fair matching in a non-rigged system. Why? Because it’s well over an sd (its like 1.5 iirc). Of course, with hidden mmr handicapping, who can say. You’ll never know where you actually stand (on the pdf) relative to others, unless you grind matches rigged for 50-50 outcomes, corrupted by trolls, to complete your SR convergence - a laughable metric that records a 5+ year no-reset winrate per account (not player).
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It’s a SD of 1.67. And it is fair if players are near equally matched and distributed within that window.
Example:
Team 1 gets a 2500 player and a 1500 player. Team 2 gets a 2500 player and a 1500 player.
Additionally, it tries to match the closest range possible given the player pool. +/- 1000 SR is just the maximum range.
The only handicapping occurring is in players’ victim mindset.
You can because MMR and SR reach equilibrium and mirror each other. We also know what the SR distribution looks like from mining open profiles. It’s a normal curve with an average of ~2300 and a SD of ~600.
Reset it and watch people like you flood the forums about getting absolutely destroyed in games as high elo players equilibrate to their real rank. Then, watch more people complain that their rank ends up exactly where it was to begin with.
If the system is rigged, then high elo players would get hard stuck in lower ranks. That doesn’t happen.
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If that’s the case then you don’t need mmr. You can basically always match around sr only.
A person above the match average is handicapped by it. By definition.
At that point you can discard mmr entirely. You can reach equilibrium with sr and sr bonuses (like pbsr). MMR still has no place.
Like most entropy gaining systems that undergo zero maintenance or self correction, it’s lognormal by now with alts and burners.
That’s not what rigging means.
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You can’t because SR doesn’t represent skill level, it represents rank within the ladder.
Rank is ultimately derived from MMR. If anything, you could drop SR and use MMR, but the numerical representation of MMR would be inaccessible to most people.
That’s like saying, “Because I’m competing in a recreational soccer league and I’m slightly better than my team, I’m being handicapped.”
You aren’t being handicapped. You’re just looking for excuses. If you were a better soccer player, you’d be playing in a better league.
The system decreases in entropy because there is constant input, maintenance, and tweaking.
What data do you have that shows the distribution is lognormal? Both the data provided by Blizzard and the data manually mined suggest a normal distribution.
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Which is why I said:
That’s not what adaptive means. Your soccer team example is a non-adaptive selection process. The OW matchmaking is adaptive. It sequentially shuffles the teams and rebalances players around the hidden mmr. It would be like not having a fixed team in recreational soccer, instead some arbitrater is jumbling people around between goals and matches. FoR fAiRnEsS.
It would be like taking a break between a match, calculating who goes where on which team, based on hidden stats (you don’t even tell the players why), and even deciding which teams play each other next NOT based on win or loss. FoR FaIrNeSs. In which case, as an over-performer, you would absolutely be rigged and handicapped on.
FoR FaIrNeSs.
That’s not how it works. Leagues don’t use adaptive selection. The teams are locked-in, and you compete for bracket progression. They don’t adapt match on match. They don’t cherry-pick the next match (players or teams or anything) based on your prior result. You face winners of winners or vice-versa. Exactly how a non-rigged, SR-only system would work.
I think you’re just making up analogies that don’t apply. Seems like excuses to me. You can’t defend mmr-based rigging lol. Everything mmr does, SR can be made to do, and any laddering that rigs around hidden mmr is not fair laddering.
That’s not how entropy works. Constant source arrivals, transitions, and sinks causes entropy buildup. When that happens, your ideal pdf shifts to something with more entropy and lower potential. It is well-known that these systems deteriorate towards positive skew normal (or lognormal).
What data do you have that shows there is maintenance and tweaking? They don’t even reset between seasons. It’s been 5+ years lmao
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Players within the same soccer league [SR window] are very similar in skill level. You’re all in the same league for that reason. If your skill level was higher, you would be in a higher league. New teams could be picked every single match and balanced around individual players.
That’s still not handicapping. That’s called fairness.
Again, if you suck, then you suck. That’s not the system’s fault and it never will be.
If you don’t like your team, group up and 6-stack. You’ll still get destroyed outside of your league.
I have a degree in chemistry. That is how entropy works. Adding energy to the system decreases entropy. Taking it away increases entropy. Adding to the system represents a decrease in entropy.
Show the data for your lognormal distribution. Every single representation we have of the rank distribution shows a symmetric normal curve. It isn’t skewed.
- Changes to MMR, SR, and PBSR have been announced in several patch notes and dev commentary
- The patent explicitly states they will tweak and optimize the match maker
- Simple fluctuations in the number of players constitutes input
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Violence, you know I got nothing but love for you.
I’m grateful you’re taking up this fight as I don’t have the energy anymore.
However, you’re arguing logic and logos against people who argue emotionally.
You’re likely to lose your mental health at this rate.
You’ve been warned 
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argue emotionally? confirmation bias much? Neither you nor violence seem to have placed this season…violence profile is locked. So, if i made a statement about how gold bronze or silver are and hes diamond then of course he would sit outside the “standard distribution” and my point about how tanks are matched would be irrelevant.
but hey cancel culture…find one bullet point that is harder to prove…and hey presto everything else is false. i know what I’ve said about how tanks are matched…i dont remember if it was mentioned in a video from stylosa, your overwatch, or flats. I know I’m not making it up, because it was done to shorten que times for dps due to the lack of tank population. It’s no secret that the tank population is the lowest in the game. evidently you don’t play tank, so its ironic that you’d fixate on it.
but hey, i refuse to play tank, Its BROKEN. i will never touch it again.
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Sorry, I forgot. The system is only rigged against you in your specific elo. For everyone else, it works like I described.
- We aren’t at all talking about the size of the tank population. Tanks are matched using the same SR rules as everyone else–which your initial argument seems to deny
- I do play tank, but I’m a support main. You’re right though, I have never played tank below high Plat.
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