The discord nerf gutted Zen’s ability to fight flankers and it feels incredibly clunky to use now, but it still melts tanks… 
They should revert the lockout timer change and just make discord apply a lower dmg % specifically on tanks, like how tanks are more resistant to knockback, and generate less ult charge for attackers when damaged, etc.
New Tank Role Passive:
Resilient Spirit:
Limits applied damage resistance debuffs to a maximum of -10%.
Tanks are happy, Zen players are happy. Done.
No, no it didn’t. He has 25 more HP. That’s HUGE. On top of that, of the two flankers that can cleanse Discord, one has to catch him alone and the other has to burn her only survivability, which allows him to get healed up when she’s gone.
Zen is much stronger against flankers now. He’s fine.
Discord gets cleansed by simply pillar/corner dancing for a short 1.5s then it’s effectively locked out for the entire duration of the duel.
Yeah, they killed Zen with that nerf, no amount of HP can fix it. I can hope maybe in 1 year they revert it.
They should’ve given Zen the ability to apply discord/harmony orb while charging an attack.
Okay and zen also starts healing while they dont
25 hp is a big deal it lets him survival alot of damage thresh holds
Discord works just fine against flankers as long as you don’t decide to spam your discord on a flanker before they engage. He got 25 hp it’s not 25 shields but that extra hp made him insane during the beta. They will revert the nerfs to how long discord stays on you out of LOS or reduce lockout slightly and he will be a strong pick.
Harmony orb changes are decent as well you get more ult charge and enable your flankers to take longer duels out of view. With how much sustain there is in the game that can make a big difference.
Zen only feels weak because Bap and Illari are broken
After playing some more on him, it’s crazy how negatively this impacts his ability to duel.
Beyond just the lost raw dps from not having discord up more often, the lockout denies zen from having visibility of flankers through discord’s tracking indicator after the initial orb drops. This alone translates into a big effectiveness hit since that tracking ability helped offset his lack of mobility. Zen was previously able to reliably take fights with the upper hand by having better player positioning information. That’s gone now.
In addition to that, this change also adds significant artificial pressure on zen to maintain LoS, even when it requires risky/dangerous positioning, just to try to prevent discord from dropping. Before the change, zen could simply let discord drop, keep safe positioning, and not suffer a major setback beyond losing tracking and having to reapply discord once the target was reacquired. However, letting discord drop now can cost zen the fight in many 1v1 matchups, so he’s often now forced to expose himself to more risk in order to prevent that.
Those factors combine to put him at a big step down in effectiveness compared to where he was at before, and the extra 25 hp doesn’t come close to making up for that. If you want to talk about how that extra 25 hp gives him more survivability due to breakpoint thresholds, what about his own damage breakpoints that he lost due to not having reliable discord uptime?
Even sidestepping the debate on how this altered his effectiveness, this new lockout mechanic just flat out feels so clunky to play with. It’s such a strange mechanic to arbitrarily lockout a hero’s ability on certain targets. It’d be like making Lucio not be able to boop the same target twice in a row or Zarya not be able to bubble the same person back to back… it just doesn’t make sense from a gameplay perspective.
This was all due to an issue specific to discord + tanks. All these unwanted knock-on effects could have been avoided by just capping how much of discord’s dmg % applies to tank heroes. Now zen’s core gameplay has been altered quite a bit, and, ironically, the underlying issue remains since discord still melts tanks. Hopefully they’ll take another crack at fixing this and will restore zen’s fluid gameplay feel.
Zen feels weak because he is the easiest hero to kill in the game by a ridiculously wide margin and Blizzard just took away his only tool that makes the tradeoff worth it.
Zenyatta needs to instantly be able to put pressure on anyone who so much as looks at him funny, if he can only safely use discord when his opponent is already fully committed to killing him he’s already as good as dead.
Nah it’s a good change for the health of the game.
Reduce it to 4 seconds, if it’s cleansed by an enemy ability, lockout for 7 seconds.