Reverse damage fall off is a terrible idea and will never happen

General Discussion
1

Snipers are meant to be effective at long range I get it. You want snipers to be used at long range cool, the idea that they should be useless at close range however, is terrible.

The amount of mobility in this game means that snipers need to be able to defend themselves at close range. Otherwise they become throw picks in almost every situation because heros like genji, doomfist, sombra, tracer, wrecking ball, lucio, dva, and Winston all exist. They can close the gap easily and make it to where sniper damage is always useless.

It shouldn’t be a loss just because someone picked a hero that can get close. You should have a fighting chance.

adding reverse fall off would be like making it to where after tracer blinked she did 40% less damage. youre supposed to be weak at range, so when you use an ability that closes the distance you should do less damage right?

that’s the logic reverse fall off follows.

youre supposed to be weak close range, so if someone gets close your damage should be useless.

there is far too much mobility in this game to force snipers to have a certain distance before you get your damage potential.

If you do not like snipers that’s fine, its not a reason to make them unusable. unless you are going to completely kill off mobility in this game, its not possible.

You need things like snipers in this game otherwise you lose the ability to have heros like tracer and genji. An equalizer is needed in the game. You need the ability for skill to shut down utility. otherwise abilities like immortality field, antiheal, primal rage, and shields.

otherwise they all become too good and you have to remove them.

without snipers to burst down an IF and be able to quickly kill afterwards, it becomes too much and you have to remove it.

without snipers to be able to 1 shot through trans it becomes effectively uncounterable with only ana being able to counter it, resulting in a must pick of ana every time a zen is picked. or the ultimate needing nerfs.

without snipers a lot cant exist in this game.

Snipers are only so prominent because support power creep has made anything but their damage unusable. with the addition of abilities like IF, a burst heal to anas nano, abilities like trans, and sound barrier, buffs to fortify, and revert to armor nerfs there is nothing a dps without sniper damage can do.

the reason snipers are so prominent, is support power creep is making anything but snipers unusable.

8 Likes
2

What about giving Hanzo normal fall-off?

21 Likes
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hes a sniper? giving hanzo damage fall off means you might as well never use him.

at long range he would require 2 shots minimum, the same as pharah, who has superior mobility, and AOE damage. or youd use ash, because she requires 2 shots as well with much better utility in her coach gun cc, and her tnt for aoe damage, shes hitscan, and her ultimate is much better than hanzos.

giving hanzo damage fall off makes him useless compared to every other hero who does what he does.

he would be like genji. why use genji when doomfist does it better?

why use hanzo when ashe has more utility and is hitscan?

why use hanzo when phara has aoe damage, easier to hit projectiles, doesn’t require headshots, can flank, and has better mobility?

the entire purpose of hanzo is his one shot potential. remove that and everyone else that has 2 shot potential is a better choice.

1 Like
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He’s a midrange hero like McCree.

Because Ashe doesn’t one-shot, so Hanzo should play closer than her.

28 Likes
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Hanzo’s fall off damage (not reverse fall-off…not only is that a dumb idea but it would punish Hanzo for…getting dived? Who thought of this? If you want Hanzo dive-able then nerf or remove lunge) would likely extend far out where projectiles are less likely to hit reducing his random spam headshots.

It also gives him a weakness and forces him to respect Ashe and Widow which is healthy

The fall off to make him useless at long ranges would have to be higher than all the other hitscans.

We’re not trying to make him as useless as Mccree at 75m, this is a legit idea for a nerf and definitely would not ruin him as he can still

  • eat barriers and have time/resources to murder the people behind it
  • contest people at mid range without noticeable change, and still challenge people at long rare with a respectable disadvantage
  • Randomly one shot people
  • Be nearly uncounterable by tanks or supports

Although if I were a dev…

Doomfist

  • deleted
2 Likes
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Widowmaker was literally given machine gun capability on her sniper rifle, there’s no reason why her scoped shots need full damage from 1m away.

17 Likes
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Widow is punished immensely for missing scoped shots while being engaged by enemies. Hitting a shot at 1m was probably luck with her tiny shots lol

Nerfing luck is just a waste of time.

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I agree, what Widow needs is depth of focus on her scope, with accompanying large loss of accuracy, and adjustment time when switching targets at drastically different distances. Furthermore, she needs her scope to accurately represent the dramatic loss of field size and movement sensitivity that also accompanies range differences.

This magic infinity corrected, infinity focused scope that doesnt follow simple optics rules is really lame.

6 Likes
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if youre being forced into mid-close range engagements might as well run doomfist. he has multiple ways to one shot, sustain, isn’t affected by shields, the same range, cc, and an ult that can get value much easier.

at that point hes either lucky, or punishing not respecting a snipers sightlines, both which are things that don’t need to be changed. hanzo spamming down a sight line is area denial. I see no issue with that.

he already has a weakness to them. they are hitscan. he is projectile.

youre taking away his value at low ranks. Meaning only people with insane aim can use them.

the mission statement of this game is “viable at all ranks”

the 13 damage smg with tracer spread? its literally a tool for finishing low targets. youre never meant to be using it to defend yourself. they literally nerfed it because she used to be able to do that.

there is a reason. a genji can fan dash and kill her before she can even get the damage off necessary with her smg. she shouldn’t be dead just because you picked a hero that can get close or flank.

1 Like
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I really don’t care how snipers get toned down, but the fact is that they still need to be toned down. Reverse damage falloff sounds pretty good for Hanzo.

AKA: dive. Which is pretty much designed to punish anyone who is not in position to be protected by their team (= snipers). These heroes you listed should be extremely strong counterpicks to snipers, but right now they are not. And it’s wrong.

Said snipers have too much damage up close (Hanzo) or too much escapability (Widow), resulting in snipers running rampant without a way to counter them except by mirror picking snipers on your own team.

It’s stupid, and anyone who defends it has no clue about how metas form and how to get rid of it.

9 Likes
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No lol
I’m taking away his value from what you call area denial

He’s getting a nerf because he’s good at everything and I think fall-off damage is a good one.

But blizz loves him and will never give him the sledgehammer so at the maximum it will be 1 less storm arrow…

whatever ig, at least they nerfed him

3 Likes
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There is no reason for Hanzo to be good at long range given he fires arrows. We can have a one shotting be balanced between one close to mid range sniper, and a mid to long range one.

Given Hanzo’s tool kit it makes absolute logical sense, plus you are far better off trying to land arrows in close to medium range because it’s a bigger target.

1 Like
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unless youre wiling to remove abilities like IF, and trans, and nerf mobility no.

no. dive as a whole still counters hanzo. Picking a flanker shouldn’t mean you loose by default. rock paper scissors counters are terrible game design.

giving hanzo reverse fall off would make it to where essentially once you got close hes lost. he doesn’t have the tools to open this distance.

unless you are going to nerf mobility into the dirt, its not feasible.

they are. but that doesn mean they should when by default. they should still have to out gun the hanzo.

no support power creep making anything but sniper damage useless resulted in that.

the fact that you think snipers being troll picks for 2 years until brig made all damage but sniper damage useless was a result of:

says you have no idea how metas are formed.

theres no reason? how about the fact that dive heros can cover the distance in seconds, putting you at a disadvantadge easily? you need to be able to kill them before they put you at a disadvantadge.

given the amount of mobility in the game, it doesn’t. he needs to be able to kill before people get to a range they can close the distance on him easily from.

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Oh god you’re such a quoter. I’d rather not respond to every single line.

  • Picking a flanker should counter a Hanzo, yes. But yet the Hanzo has a MUCH easier time hitting shots up close. Because, you know, closer targets are bigger on the screen and as such, easier to hit. Meanwhile most flankers/divers are built on the fact they do not as much damage per shot, but instead “whittle down” an opponent, but they can close the distance.
    So yes, closing the distance to a Hanzo should be prevented by the Hanzo outplaying that, through killing them from a longer range. If the player can’t do that, he should not be playing a sniper. Same goes for Widow, btw.
  • You talk about support powercreep. Meanwhile we’re living in a game that has less healing than ever before in overwatch (mercy 50hps instead of 60. Moira 65hps instead of 85. Brigitte 120hp per pack instead of 150 and applied over several seconds instead of instantly), and yet… snipers are still here? Who knew that making supports weaker would only allow snipers to do their jobs better?
  • Transcendence doesn’t need nerf. Transcendence heals over time, doesn’t mean the people in it are invulnerable. Widow and Hanzo headshots still kill them instantly. Ana anti-heal still counters the whole ult.
  • IF is a crappy ability yes and it should be toned down.
7 Likes
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False. it is much easier to lead shots from a distance, than to flick to the head of a blinking tracer or double jumping genji.

unless the person close to you is not using their mobility at all and walking straight at you. its easier to hit them further out.

when things like wall climbing to be able to completely flank to behind them in the game and never go into their sightlines, and defense matrix allowing them to dive directly at you and not take any damage exist, no. you shouldn’t.

things like shields in general allow you to close the distance with no risk at all.

its stupid to give him reverse fall off, when there are so many tools to make closing the distance laughable.

unless you are going to give hanzo the ability to shoot through shields then no. getting close shouldn’t mean he has no damage. same with widow.

you conveniently leave out that:

moira has more of her healing resource allowing form more overall healing even with the number nerfs.

Ana has a burst heal on nano now

brig has 3 armor packs instead of 1 now.

brig has more aoe healing on her inspire

baptiste exist adding amplified healing, and immortality field

supports still are overall more powerful than they were in the game. their existance makes chip damage useless. you cant “whiddle” down things because supports heal it at such a rate that it makes their damage useless.

supports are not weaker than they were pre goats era where the issue started.

trancendece heals at 300 HPS. It is a burst heal. it is not a heal over time. there are 2 things that can kill through it. a sniper shot, and antihealing.

snipers are prominent because their damage is the only thing that can ignore healing, and healing is power crept.

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Again with the “dive heroes can cross the entire map in a second so snipers should be close range too”.

Looking past how falsly exaggerated you seem to treat dive heroes (remember, Widow was one of the best heroes in dive because she could kill them before they could get to her), the whole point of a sniper is deadly from a distance. Making them strong up close means they are literally untouchable and there is no reason why you shouldn’t pick them. That’s why Hanzo is literally the best DPS right now, because not only can he oneshot from a distance, but he can shred even tanks up close.

Widow already is balanced by thr fact that she struggles up close due to her main damage source forcing a zoom in, making it all the harder to hit a target jumping around you. But Hanzo gets to wait for the mobility to be used, back up a few meters, then line up easy shots with basic tracking. If he had to wait for his bow to wind up, that’d be something worth noting, but Sonic Arrows make that nigh instantaneous and lets him pump, what, up to 400 damage towards a 200 HP target in the span of a second?

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Who is this in response to? I’ve seen like 2 posts saying this, maybe just respond to the posts themselves?

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Trans is a heal over time because it’s not a one and done burst like, say, a sniper shot.

Also you’re forgetting all the other burst ults like Dva nuke or Junk tire, or how proper damage boosting can make basic shots do more than 300 DPS, especially with proper team focus. Trans is certainly strong, but not exactly untouchable.

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The only game I’m aware of with Reverse Damage Falloff was an old f2p game (one of the first of its kind actually) by the name of Battlfield Heroes.

It only served to make the game more dominated by long range weapons and promote even cheesier strategies.

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no she wasn’t. widow was a throw pick during dive specifically because it was so easy to close the gap. she only became good after they gave her the ability to widen it with the grapple buff.

you act like this game is call of duty and there aren’t million and one abilities to close the distance in this game.

you seem to want to ignore the actual abilities in this game and use the argument of range as if nobody can get close to them. Mobility was king in this game for the first 2 years it was out. even with the grapple buffs. heros like tracer still out paced her because of her ability to dodge shots unpredictably. it wasn’t until brigs release that snipers became the dominant dps. a hero shouldn’t lose an encounter just because of the hero you picked.

if you nerf hanzo to not have his damage close what does he do against a Winston? a Dva? a Hammond? not only can they close the gap easily, but they can also have massive health pools.

Dva can close the gap with no possibility of damaging her.

Rein sigma and orisa all have shields to help mitigate the damage as they close the gap.

what would hanzo do against them?

Your narrow view of the game isn’t how it actually works.

its a burst heal with an extended duration in an aoe.

you cannot say that 300 hps is not burst, and then turn around and say that 300 dps in a shot is burst damage.

just because it has an extended duration does not mean it isn’t burst healing.

1 Like