Retribution Lore 👎

Blizz loves keeping things fluffy and soft, which is nice. In Warcraft, a military general was convicted of “war crimes” such as: bombing enemy cities. This suits their narrative and style well, and is probably the best decision for their stories. Regardless, Retribution went far too ridiculous imo. The team kills tons of Talon soldiers on the way in, then precedes to mope over killing an actual villain?

Meet the soldier team who will not stop their whining about killing an adversary (so unheard of for soldiers to do, right?). This dude blew up one of their buildings, it’s practically a rendition of the Bin Laden raid except played out by emo children.

McCree (who was previously a gangb*nger in a group worse than Talon) will not stop whining and crying. Genji is actually cool here, implying once he became a bonafide good guyÂŽ he picked up all the power ranger, robo buddha fluff. And the two who act like actual heroes/soldiers are the two who later mysteriously become serial killers.

Family friendly is a great and useful look for Blizz. Soldiers that get their feelings hurt by killing enemies is something else entirely. This isn’t modern Batman, killing shouldn’t be in any way equivalent to being a villain. Keep it off the screen if you want, but don’t turn the professional killers into Teletubbies for Gods’ sakes.

:moirafacepalm:

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I agree, plus hearing Mc Cree whine to Reyes several times during the mission got very annoying real fast…

“This is all your fault commander! we had a plan! We could have walked Antonio out of the city, I didn’t sign up for this!”

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Indeed. Curse that damned ingrate!

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Well, initially McCree was fine with killing Antonio. I think he’s just upset at Reyes for going back on the plan and risking the lives of the team for revenge.

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I’m a WoW player. I don’t think it was the best decision for their stories since the current one is committing some pretty questionable war crimes and the general playerbase doesn’t want to play warchief roulette. Not a good comparison.

McCree cared about Reyes killing Antonio because it put his own life at risk and because it was not the original plan. He knew that if they planned to kill him they could have done it without triggering alarms and risking their own lives. His quick decision made him angry at Reyes.

I think Mcrees upsetness is justifies. He’s not upset that reaper killed the guy. He’s upset the reaper screwed up a carefully laid out plan and brought an army of hellfire down in them. In addition, they wanted to capture the guy for a reason. It could be for information which is now lost. It could be so that the law can deal with him - which means it’s a judge jury executioner moral thing.

No matter what, it’s not murder that upsets mcree. It’s the other stuff around it.

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I think we need better Lore in general. We still haven’t got an animated short in forever, and haven’t moved the story forward.

We still don’t know what Reapers world view is even though Blizzard said they would tell us.

We don’t know anything about Mercy and she is one of the key meme era of Overwatch.

More Lore is needed😂

It’s because:
1 - It was an execution of an unarmed man in territory they had no jurisdiction on.
2 - It wasn’t part of the plan and it jeopardized the entire mission.

It was overall a stupid decision, but I don’t think Gabe was thinking. He seems to be hotheaded and impulsive, not to mention have a thirst for revenge, so there you go.

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Before shooting Antonio, there was no alarm, as they somehow managed to silence all those guards without setting one off. Once Antonio was killed, the alarm goes off, and the mission objective has failed.

Antonio is a public figure they wanted to publicly expose as a bad guy. By killing him that way, it would be incredibly easy to portray Blackwatch as a rogue group of killers hunting down “innocent businessmen.” Even though it is likely true Antonio would have been freed by his friends in government, the public would at least have gotten a chance at seeing a conversation about why he was arrested to begin with–and even a glimpse at the corruption involved in him being released.

I am one of those people who hates it when superheroes refuse to kill, as I think it legitimizes the idea that you can’t be a hero if you have to kill people. In this case, though, I think McCree was entirely correct to get on Reyes’ case for his decision.

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The idea of raid was, they quietly capture the guy and torture him for information on OTHER Talon leaders. Instead Reyes went full retard and decided to shoot him. Despite previously PROHIBITING McCree form doing so.

Stay classy, Reyes.

???

blackwatch
caring about jurisdiction
u wot

“I don’t want characters that are dynamic and have conflict. That stuff is for children.”

I will explain. I am not saying that they care about it, I am saying that being in a place under different jurisdiction means more trouble than the other way, and so you need to watch your actions closely.

When you have a task force in a country that is under the same jurisdiction of a criminal that they end up killing, it usually doesn’t cause an international incident (with some exceptions).

They should have been more careful and followed the plan - getting in and out without causing a ruckus - but instead Reyes went and killed the target. An international organization entered a country and killed an unarmed citizen. It can easily be seen as an act of aggression against the country’s sovereignty, which is what happened.

One way or the other, Retribution lore directly contradicts the comic they made for the thing. It’s either Gabe having serious mental disorder, or… yeah, I’d say it’s ****ty writing.

Reaper in the comic was on the verge of losing it anyway. I wouldn’t put it past him to try and suppress that rage over what happened and then- when confronted with Antonio face to face- just stop caring.

I think McCree is more angry that he didn’t get to kill Antonio, especially since it was Reyes who talked him out of doing it in the comic. McCree saying they need to send a stronger message and that even if they capture Antonio he won’t talk, honestly I knew Antonio was gonna die cause my friend told me after they saw it but I told them not to say anything else, I thought I guess Reyes couldn’t control McCree… But nope it was Reyes who killed him!

Totally a person who would be allowed to lead OW strike team for many years.

Not working by the book and being ruthless is one thing. Being unable to follow the plan you yourself established is called something else - being incompetent. Boy, do I love my villains being incompetent morons.

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The most interesting and dynamic characters I’ve ever read make bad or morally dubious decisions all the time, because human beings are terrible decision-makers more often than not. Retribution and its implications on the way Overwatch has played out would’ve been boring af if the reason for the hasty escape was because they had simply gotten trapped or something.

I don’t think it really happens that way… if they’d kept Antonio alive, they could have left the city with him at gunpoint without having to kill anyone else. So the “moping” probably concerns both his death AND the blood bath that follows from it.

The War Crimes story in WoW really does bother me though. It’s simply not a concept that translates into the Warcraft universe, which doesn’t even have a common legal framework between cultures, most of which hardly have a legal tradition to begin with…

Btw, personally I’d rather American soldiers hadn’t just taken it upon themselves to shoot Bin Laden, which was a barbaric act in violation of the separation of powers and the pillars of democracy.

In Warcraft, a military general was convicted of “war crimes” such as: bombing enemy cities.

What you’re talking about was effectively a nuclear bomb, unprovoked and without warning, on a neutral city. If the President of the United States launched a nuclear missile at Thailand tomorrow you’d bet there would also be impeachment / war crime proceedings.