So a Top 500 player wouldn’t be considered the best of the best for you?
Interesting…
Now, I can see how some players could have been “carried” to a high rank due to them being reliant on a pre made, “abusing” an OP hero that carried them, or even being legitimately boosted, etc.
But saying that GM/Masters players are not really the best because of MMR is not true
Some of the best, but not the very best.
What I’m saying is, their rank is subjected to being false. Their rank is TAINTED. Stained. Blemished. Why? Because the outcome of EVERY current competitive match is being tampered with.
Overwatch is an eSport yes? If so, than MMR is illegal in within the boundaries of Competitive Play.
Overwatch is an eSport, yes? MMR tampers with the outcome of overwatch’s competitive play, yes? Yes. Because this is so, EVERY player’s RANK from BRONZE to GM is subjected to being illegitimate and false. Why? Again, because the outcome of EVERY SINGLE MATCH (win or lose) is tampered with.
I’m not doubting that they’re amazing phenomenal players. I watch these GM players streams ALL the time and I am amazed at their skill.
It’s just extremely unfortunate that within the realm and context of TRUE, AUTHENTIC Competition, Overwatch and it’s MMR is LYING to them saying that they ‘deserve’ this rank. It’s a bunch of horse sh t.
If anything, High rank players who want LEGITIMATE competition should be the ones that are even MORE outraged by it. If they aren’t then it just goes to show that they just got suckered in and are enjoying their fake ranks. To that, I say, go and be happy in your willfull ignorance of fake competition.
You want to really see what you’re made of? High Ranking player should compete in REAL competition. It’ll actually be extremely healthy for the development of their own Performance Psychology. WHY would you NOT WANT THAT? Everyone should want that.
Cmon my people.
#RemoveMMRfromCompetitive #DefendYourSR
So, what would you consider better than Top 500 players? 
Then how does it work according to you? Every single player is subject to the same parameters such as MMR so the only think differentiating a good and a bad player is skill. Are there downsides of MMR? Sure, but there are more upsides and with enough games played it doesn’t really matter.
TBH, I consider myself to be one of the best, especially in my time when the game was first launched and before Competitive Play even existed. I have always been frustrated with the system and suspected that it kept me from reaching the top rank during my career. But I know logically that the system affects many other players who are as good or even better than me. Am I in the top 500? I have no idea. But I guarantee the current top 500 has only a small proportion of the best there ever was, if any.
Not according to me, according to primary sources like Principal Overwatch Designer Scott Mercer and the 2015 patent description of Activision/Blizzard’s Matchmaker. Please read my thread about algorithmic handicapping.
That’s wrong, there has been a developer statement that MMR is only in effect between Bronze and Platinum.
What do you consider as the downsides of MMR?
ok
If you’re truly one of the best, then maybe get there? Lol
Even with the “rigging” solo climbing is definitely possible 
You’re missing the main integral part about the integrity of genuine, real, authentic competition.
Real competition DOES NOT tamper with the outcome of it’s matches. MMR does exactly that. It doesn’t matter whether or not “every player is subject to the same parameters such as MMR”, MMR is ILLEGAL within the boundaries/definition/confines of legitimate Competition.
Every player is already subjected to the same parameters that the game in and of itself already presents–these are the rules of the game and a player’s SR.
MMR has a place, it’s just NOT inside competitive play.
This is absolutely true, but MMR distorts the truth and validity of that and, therefore, EVERY player’s RANK is subjected to being illegitimate because the outcome of EVERY match is tampered with.
But if MMR “Riggs and distorts” everyone equally, then no one is really affected.
Therefore, since everyone has an equal change of climbing and deranking, competitive is, in fact, legitimate 
Checkmate 
I am aware of your thread since you like to artificially keep it alive.
That seems unlikely to me. I have played my fair share of games in all skill brackets (except for bronze) and have never noticed a difference in matchmaking in the metal and shiny ranks. If you have a source on that, id like to see it.
First, let’s establish some definitions. I do agree that there is ‘handicapping’ in the sense that the matchmaker evaluates the performance of a player’s past few games and searches for 11 other people to create a game with a predicted outcome of about 50%.
This premise has several implications.
A player that has been overperforming in his past few games may be matched with people that haven’t been playing that well to create a match with a predicted outcome of 50%
A player that has been overperforming in his past few games may be matched against another player who has been overperforming in their past few matches to create a match with a predicted outcome of 50%
A player who has been underperforming in his past few matches may be matched with players who have been playing well to create a match with a predicted outcome of 50%
A player who has been underperforming in his past few matches may be matched against other players who havent been playing well to create a match with a predicted outcome of 50%
Scenario 1 and 2 cause frustration among your cult since you consider this kind of matching to be against the spirit of competiveness. Honestly, i don’t think you are entirely off base here, though you fail to consider the bigger picture.
Scenario 3 and 4 are mostly glossed over by most of you (consider this to be the rest of the picture).
Now, these scenarios, in turn, have implications on each players game experience. For instance, they try to eliminate (or at least highly reduce) the chance of stomps since they are no fun for any of the parties involved. Fair/close games release dopamine and makes you keep playing.
The obvious downside to this, and this is what you are also talking about, is that the MMR attempts to iron out human inconsistency caused by external factors (sleep, food, etc.) which results in less ladder mobility. Mind you, in either direction. To combat this and rank up (or down), a player has to be consistently out(/under)performing his peers, and that’s generally just a pretty hard thing to pull off.
Ultimately, the goal of any competitive game is providing close games to its audience. Healthy games result in rewards and gratification for the players and player retention and profit for the company. In the end, we can only speculate how much boils down to player retention and how much to providing the players a fair matchmaker.
This removes the essence of what makes a Competition truly a meaningful competition.
This is socialistic in principle as it strives for what it calls ‘equality’ (it may be equality, but it isn’t freedom and it lacks complete integrity). In essence, if only a few can be rich, let’s make everyone poor. If only a few have certain liberties and freedoms, let’s make everyone have limited freedoms.
Socialistic principles inevitably lead to communistic behavior where only the TOP/Elites are in control. Rules for thee but not for me. and this is precisely how Blizzard is behaving.
Checkmated your Checkmate because your checkmate wasn’t a real checkmate, but a check.
Checkity check check checkk~ 
Just messin’ around 
Anywho, I’m not trying to get political, but isn’t it just so crazy how it all perfectly fits?
#RemoveMMRfromCompetitive #DefendYourSR
Quite the opposite. MMR restricts ladder mobility meaning that only those who truly consistently outperform their peers will climb the ranks.
It isn’t because it doesn’t. Though, you are entitled to your opinion and i am not gonna try to convince you from mine.
and will NEVER be challenged by new and fresh players that ‘got good’ at this game.
At least, it will take these new player’s accounts an UNGODLY amount of time to get there (by then, it could be too late), OR they’ll just have to buy a new account and then attempt, which leads me to my main point about MMR.
MMR is for profits, not for ‘balancing’ and ‘climbing rank’ and skills and performance. That’s a complete LIE and it is fraudulent advertisement.
MMR is for profits. MMR is not for YOU the Player(s).
Fair enough. Not trying to convince anything political either. Just that…
MMR must be removed from Competitive.
You have been saying this now for the past few days now and no matter how I look at it it’s just not true and I can provide several accounts as evidence for that.
Like I said a couple comments above, it is also about profits.
You are conflating these concepts. MMR is for the player in that it creates fair matches and protects you from harshly deranking during sessions in which you underperformed relative to your usual performance. Though it also prevents you a little from climbing on days where your performance is unusually good relative to your average performance. In the end this will result in player retention and thus profit for Blizzard.
I want to remark that any field builds on progress and that there is not a single competitive game out there that does not have MMR. If non-MMR matchmaking truly did result in a better competitive experience, it wouldn’t be the case that the entire competitive gaming industry would build on something that does not generate any benefits to their players.
I’m not against MMR. What you are describing should NOT be within competitive play where ranking up is the actual goal.
MMR needs to stay out of competitive. MMR can stay within the boundaries of other game modes. But NOT competitive.
If you’re deranking in real competition because you’re losing, that is FULLY on YOU and your decision making. MMR needs to stay out of it.
Ok there’s no way you aren’t trolling, I refuse to believe someone who was silver border and around 1.8k SR actually is delusional enough to believe this.
How is this not rigging? Real competition has ZERO room for rigging the outcome of a match. This is ILLEGAL.
Your premises 1-4 are legit. There’s nothing wrong with MMR within the boundaries of any other game mode. But it is ILLEGAL and UNETHICAL in the confines of the word “Competition”, which is why it must be removed. Rigging the outcome of a match removes the essence of competition and, therefore, is no long competition, nor should it be even called ‘competition’.
Incorrect. The goal of any competitive game is to SHOW and DETERMINE who/which of the contender(s) are the best of the best. Even if it goes to show massive loss streaks. When a genuine competitive match happens to be a “close” game, the CROWD GOES WILD and the match in and of itself becomes what many would call, “a great game”. Manufacturing those odds is pure manipulation .
I disagree with you in the context of genuine competition. A game that HAPPENS to be a ‘good game’/‘close game’ that came out RANDOMLY will generate MORE profit and MORE player retention then what you are suggesting. MMR is going to slowly ruin the profit margins of the company. You’re wrong about the profits.
MMR is the ultimate demise of Blizzard’s profit. They may be profitable now, but that margin will steadily decay. Theta is not on their side because of MMR.
Think about professional sports dude. Take a UFC fight. When a fighter goes undefeated, the tickets sell out and the company makes money. When the undefeated fighter LOSES a match, the tickets sell out EVEN faster and the demand gets EVEN stronger (profits will sore even more). When a fighter matches up against an equal fighter by random matchmaking selection (of course there are specific rules to help determine that matchmaking, i.e. PURE SR only), the crowd LOVES it even more b/c it was entertaining. MMR is like forcing an Undefeatable Champion to have him/her fight with 1 hand against a fighter with a bad losing streak. How is that fair? it isn’t. MMR is not competition. It is something else. It needs to be removed from comp.
Not necessarily, since you need to be better than your opponents in order to climb. Whether you get an unlucky game or easy one, individual skill is still the determining factor in the long run.
huh?
Even without MMR, everyone would be equally matched against each other based on SR?
Ok I think you’re looking way too deep into this 
I don’t see the correlation between MMR and Socialistic principles but ok 
This is true in every sense, but, you’re missing my point. Tampering, or messing around with, the outcome of a competitive match–what MMR does–removes the match’s status as being ‘competitive’. It no longer becomes competitive.
Agreed and this should happen in a competitive match where the outcome is not even TOUCHED. Yeah you’ll go on a losing streak, yeah you could go on a win streak. It’s called competition and you’re competing against those that are claiming and trying to be the best. Remove MMR that is tampering with the outcome of the match.
I was responding to your quote, “if MMR “Riggs and distorts” everyone equally, then no one is really affected”. That principle inevitably then handicaps the skilled player. Of course players are affected.
Yes. SR should/must be a reflection of the Player’s skill and performance and, thus, determine which rank the Player should be in. MMR takes into account your wins/losses among many other hidden metrics, and rigs the outcome of the match to be 50% for both teams. This is illegal in sports. and this game is eSport. MMR therefore is Illegal in competitive gameplay.
all good. not trying to get all snazzy about that stuff anyhow.
#RemoveMMRfromCompetitive #DefendYourSR
Funny how you value your one-dimensional conclusion over that of the industry experts. Surely, they are all wrong but Bro on the Overwatch forums has it all figured out.
Overwatch comp is not a professional sport so your comparison is already void. What you are describing is essentially OWL. For obvious reasons, it makes sense to have no MMR in OWL.
Overwatch comp is more akin to a PE lesson at school and your teacher (matchmaker) forms two balanced teams out of the students to create a match that is fun and fair to everyone.