The only thing this really does is allow Reinhardt to be pinballed around again, which isn’t really helpful for any tanks except Hammond. He still runs over the other tanks without problem.
The only thing this has done is make CC obnoxious for every tank not Orisa again, who still has to contend with it a lot since fortify is on a not inconsiderable cooldown.
Changing around Orisa’s damage values to what they were before the overnerf was nice, as was buffing Sigma’s movement charge rate for ult, but it’s not going to put them back into viability. Rein still runs over them with little trouble. I think what should be done with these heroes is to buff them in the areas that would increase the gap they have in synergy.
Sigma was very clearly meant to be a tank primarily built for offensive capability over defense, while Orisa is meant to be the defensive tank. Maybe we can lean into these capabilities and get them viable in this manner? To that effect I propose the following changes.
PLEASE KEEP IN MIND THAT THESE ARE MEANT TO BE VIEWED INDIVIDUALLY AND NOT MEANT TO BE WHOLESALE CHANGES. These are just ideas to help with their viability without buffing them to work as well together.
Sigma
Health increased to 500, 300 normal health with 200 shield health.
Experimental Barrier’s cooldown when recalled is removed, instead returning to the 0.5 second wait before it can be projected, possibly even moved up to 0.8 seconds.
Recharge rate, shield health, and cooldowns when broken remain the same.
Kinetic Grasp reverted to its old state, but temporary shield health decays more slowly.
Accretion cast time reduced from 0.8 seconds to 0.5 seconds. Projectile speed reduced to 32m/s from 37m/s. Cooldown reduced to 8 seconds from 10 seconds. Accretion can now be deflected and absorbed by Defense Matrix and Kinetic Grasp.
Base speed increased 5%
Sigma cannot be stunned or hacked out of Gravitic Flux after the black hole has been placed. However, the ultimate will end early if Sigma is killed prior to the slam.
Orisa
Fusion Driver damage reduced to 10 per bullet. Movement speed while firing reverted to prior values.
Fortify cooldown reverted to 8 seconds, from 10 seconds. Fortify still gives a 40% damage reduction.
Protective Barrier health increased to 800, up from 600.
So that’s what I have. Let me know what you guys think. And again These are meant to be viewed as individual changes, not the end state of what I want to see them as on thw whole. The idea was to try and buff them to better suit a niche where they aren’t the optimal rock solid team.
While I agree that other tanks need some buffs, a Rein nerf certainly isn’t going to hurt their pickrates. Besides, every day that isn’t double shield is a good enough day for me.
I really like these ideas. Apart from the sigma movement buff, this post is something I completely agree with. First forum balance post I actually agree with.
They should put that we only can play with one main shield tank and buff or reworks some thinga on orisa and sigma. Anyway shatter needs a hithox nerf.
Yeah, I understand that concern, but everything else I proposed puts her at a state better than where she was prior to the barrier patch with her armor buff and the revert to 5 damage reduction. She needed something to keep her more suited to being a defense pick. Having good damage and a speed while firing would just have her be a slow moving juggernaut on attack.
Strong disagree. We already have more restrictions than we had even 6 months ago, the game doesn’t need more hard limits.
I think hitbox nerf as well as fixing its weird payload interactions are both needed, much more than nerfing Rein’s steadfast so hard.
Thanks. The idea with the movement buff was to get Sigma to be someone who works best when advancing. His playstyle without Orisa is best suited to moving in fast and hard, and that’s something I wanted to lean into. 5% does seem like it’s too much in hindsight, but I feel like he should get something to make people want to move when playing him.
Meanwhile I think your changes are awesome, but I don’t agree with accretion nerfs to be eaten by dm and grasp. This projectile is easily countered by shield/bubble and casts so long that it can be easily avoided.
It’s not one I’m terribly fond of as a Sigmain on tanks either, but people still complain about it to no end. I was trying to get a better cast and cooldown at the sacrifice of a slower speed and removing the saltiness D.Va and Genji mains have at not being able to eat it.
It’ll help their pick rates because someone has to play tank, but it doesn’t do anything to solve the issue that they feel weak. Tanks need to have a certain feeling of being able to stand their ground and just hold the line. You see it in the cinematics. Right now most tanks lack this feeling. If Reinhardt is nerfed then he’ll also lack this feeling. It makes you not want to be the tank which is part of the DPS queue times issue.
^ ^ ^ This a million times. I came into this game a tank main, but all the changes have really turned me off to playing them, and this is usually the most cited issue with former tank mains. We get that DPS need to kill things, but when your defenses keep feel like they’re being sapped away, it makes you want to tank less often.
I think Rein did need a steadfast or at least movement speed nerf, but reducing it to pre-barrier patch levels was the wrong way to go. They should have tried 40% before dropping all the way down to its old value of 30.
This change can help the tanks somehow indeed. Now supports like Brig and Lucio and DPS like Pharah, Junkrat, Doomfist and Ashe can boop him away further from melee range so tanks like Orisa and Sigma get a little extra time to run way from him.
Steadfast only reduces displacejment CC, and for a melee hero (melee are uncounterable attacks - only by Genji’s deflect) with a giant barrier keeping distance is one of the best counter-plays. Denying the possibility to boop him (50% steadfast made him less than half distance boopable) is denying one of his biggest counterplays, which especially other tanks suffer from this because Rein goes ahead playing the face tank battle.
If you think he’s a pinball now, just advocate for a middle ground change (40%).
Why would the Reinhardt nerf need to help other tanks? It’s just annoying to try CC Reinhardt right now, which is problematic as he’s already (and was even before he got the CC reduction at all) the central anchorpiece of a team.
It’s cool, but even taken together I did give her movement speed and damage nerfs so that it’s still possible to invade her space. I thought it would be a fair tradeoff.