Reinhardt Changes

Hi everyone, relatively new player, big fan of Reinhardt. I want to specify this is my opinion, but I’d like to make it heard. I’m posting this here to voice my grievances (additionally what I assume to be that of my fellow Crusaders) and hopefully get the balance team’s attention.

Rein feels really weak comparative to nearly every other tank right now. He’s a sitting duck when he doesn’t have any backup and he has next to no individual autonomy. Not to mention for the only melee tank in the game, he has no vertical mobility. And I will die on this hill, Shield Bash should be base kit, there’s no reason for it not to be.

Solo carry potential on Rein is virtually nonexistent. His primary form of pressure and space creation (His Shield) is defensive, and the one ranged option you have (Fire Strike) is a slow and extremely telegraphed projectile you get to shoot once every 6 seconds. The 125 damage buff helped a lot, but it’s not enough. Not to mention, when you somehow manage to close the distance, YOU’RE SLOW. Nearly the entire cast can outrun him without assisted speed boost and even then its a close call. All together, you’re a sluggish and very large metaphorical punching bag for the enemy team without any support, and oftentimes even with help.

The key issue I feel is that Rein doesn’t force respect, he needs to earn it. Every other tank (besides maybe Junker Queen, but that’s a separate conversation) demands respect through involuntary space control tools or offensive pressure. Rein can’t do that like everyone else.

It feels like 9/10 games I’m just clocking into the armor crushing factory when I just want to have fun with my favorite character. I feel like a victim more than a jolly old German man with a giant hammer and power armor. Playing and near bleeding for the 1/10 games where you’re having fun and brawling to your hearts content is really demoralizing when you can just pick Mauga, Orisa, Ramattra, and get 10x the value for less than half the effort.

And that’s the problem. I don’t want to play another tank, I want to play Rein.

I feel that one change, accompanied by one of two potential changes would really help him claw out of D tier.

Standard change:

Shield Bash goes to base kit. I don’t understand why this isn’t the case to begin with, because as helpful as it is, it’s not worth a major perk slot. Plus Brig has it, no shot the master can’t do it if the squire can off-rip.

Potential Changes:

A. Having a vertical mobility option tied to charge, something like Balderich’s insane jump from the animation. The big man himself could do it, WE CAN TOO. If I’m allowed to be greedy, I’d want it as a separate ability but I understand why it would be wise to limit it to charge. Shield Bash major Perk would ideally be replaced by being able to gain a small amount of movement speed increase after charge or shield bash, say 10%-20%. Nothing crazy like nano boost, but enough to make a difference in a do or die situation. It’s self explanatory why a little extra mobility would help the slowest and most close combat dependent character in the game.

B. Give his shield a partial damage reflection property. Every single other tank with a shield can shoot through it, give Rein at least this. To specify, something like when his shield is shot, it spawns projectiles with damage values equal to a portion of damage received, that travel in the direction the shield is facing. Again, something like 10%-20% of damage received, among the lines of Reaper’s lifesteal percentage. Not a ridiculous value mind you, but enough to make the Mercy pocketed Soldier think “Should I really be shooting him right now? Those things hurt.” Potentially replace the fire strike overcharge minor perk to something that buffs the reflection property, either tightening the spread, or being able to save it into one big burst for a killing blow. Or just not have a perk for it at all. This would help him be less of a sitting duck at range or alone. Plus, the perk change would offer the same build choice: “More damage, or more individual sustain?”

In the Crusaders’ lore, they were sworn to be a defensive unit, until just defense wasn’t enough. That’s when they picked up the hammers. Everyone, the hammer isn’t enough anymore. We need a gear upgrade to fight more effectively. I plead for mercy from the developers and support from all other Reins. Thank you for your time, have a good day.

TLDR: I love Rein. He sucks. Most games you just feel like a victim. Please buff him. Shield Bash base kit, plus vertical mobility or damage reflection please. Thank you, much obliged.

2 Likes

ummm, i don’t know if ur trolling but, rein is literally meta right now.

3 Likes

Gotta be a troll post to say the current best performing tank is D tier.

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You just aren’t playing him right lol.

Learn how to use fire strike kid.

Skill issue.

I have a feeling this entire splerg just amounts to, as I said above, “Skill Issue”.

I’m not saying he isn’t tough to play considering the endless hit scan in this game. But if you can’t kill squishies who get too close, that’s just on you.

Then maybe get better at the game.

I do too, played him for 10 years and he isn’t even my main.

Learn to play.

Rein actually needs nerfs not buffs. This post is very out of touch. I recommend nerfing his shield HP.

3 Likes

Rein is literally the best tank in the game since Sigma and Doom got nerfed but okay.

TL;DR: Rein is strong, yes. But only because of numbers adjustments. His hero design is outdated and desperately needs a rework that gives him more movement.

I feel like a lot of people in this thread need to learn the difference between balance and gamedesign. You can make ANY hero busted beyond imagination by simply adjusting their numbers accordingly. Imagine a hero who’s WASD movement is on a 5 second cooldown. Every 5 steps you gotta stand still for 5 seconds. Even THAT hero would be uncontested meta if you give them a hitscan main weapon that deals 100000 damage with no damage fall-off. Even though that hero is meta you’d all agree their design is absolute dogpoop and needs to be changed. Sounds silly, but you get the idea.

I do not deny the facts. Rein is really strong right now. But its matter of numbers. In this case the damage break point with firestrike is what suddenly made him meta. But I think his entire hero design is still bad and frankly outdated.

Hes a melee tank without any quick movement ability until a level 2 perk. Charge is many things but its not a quick gap close. Sooo many heros just run circles around him and can still shred through his shield AND HP at range.

Reins design is still stuck in 2018 and he desperately needs a rework to bring him up-to-date. And the main thing he needs is better mobility. If not some kind of vertical movement at the very least shield bash in his base kit and/or being able to shield while charging. Maybe a perk that gives him a brief movement boost whenever he hits someone with his hammer. I’d rather have +20% movement speed on hammer hit than his current major perk that gives him faster swings. So many times you hit someone and then they juuust get out of hammer range and you cant close the gap anymore so youre just swinging at air. Bonus points if the little push from the hammer itself is what helped the enemy get out of hammer range in the first place. Obviously he needs to get nerfs to compensate. Reduce shield HP. Remove a charge from firestrike (and slightly buff the damage so its not useless). Reduce shatter range. So many things could be nerfed to compensate. But please - for the love of whoever’s god - give him some mobility.

Stats are against you…

Same for you, stats don’t matter anymore?

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Competitive overall Reinhardt has a whopping 14% Pick rate and a huge 54% win rate. If we go by even just the top he only falls off in Grandmaster and Champ. Even in Masters he has a 51% WR and a 10% Pick rate. Diamond 12.5% Pick, 52.5% WR, Plat, 15% Pick 53% Win Rate Stats are on my side actually.

Rein has never been weak at any point in this games history, 1 or 2

He was pretty weak initially in OW2 for the first year or so

Nah stats are against you, if you’re bad you will struggle against him, if you’re good you will not.

That’s called a skill issue, to overcome Rein you need to be good, that’s a good indicator that the hero is not that good.

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You can inflate and tank any heros win/pickrate with enough numbers adjustments, no matter how bad their design is. Pointing out Reins stats and saying hes strong fails to address the underlying issues with his design.

Hes outdated. Plain and simple. The fantasy of a big guy in armor swinging his hammer at people has been surpassed by mobility creep, shield melting heros and CC. The fact that a break-point damage increase to his long range poke ability is what suddenly made him so strong shows how poor his melee brawling capabilities are. I’d much rather trade firestrike/earthshatter/shield nerfs for a decent movement ability. Maybe shield bash in his base kit, so he can actually stay on top of people. Right now you have to rely on the enemy to make serious positional mistakes to make any good use of his hammer. If youre lucky you can use charge to get close to the enemies (if they dont have any cc, mobility or just melt you while charging). But then, if they get juust out of range your hammer is useless again.

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I would nerf his ultimate adding more delay to ive it more counter play, and then I would buff him accordinly to make him less clunky and reduce some of his hard counters.

Right now I feel like when a good reinhart start getting close, doing a lot of damage and winning a combat, he then snowballs and use his ultimate winning another one because he can easily kill 1 or 2 more enemies. He is really strong but can be hardcountered by not meta heroes.

Update: Yall were half right, part of it was a skill issue, I reevaluated my playstyle, got better and he got way easier and more fun to to play. I was trying to play more hammer than shield and that kept getting me killed, go figure. Went up a whole rank division too, which I’m really happy about.

Damage reflection is probably a bit much in hindsight but it would be very nice if I can be greedy. Ultimate tank fantasy type thing, the truest offense is defense etc. I understand why it would be excessive though.

That said, I maintain shield bash should be base kit and rein should have some form of vertical mobility tied to charge. I will argue for this until my lungs give out. These changes would be both beneficial, and lore accurate to the character.

Also I saw a lot of people justifying a hero being strong by their pick and win rate, and I feel that’s an inaccurate indicator. Ex: Sigma, Sojourn, Mauga, and Ramattra have lower pick rates and win rates but they are objectively better characters. Rein having a high pick and win rate says more about the average crusader than it does the character the way I see it.

Tldr: As it turns out, part skill issue on my end, fixed now. That said, I still think shield bash should be base kit and he should have some vertical mobility. Thanks again, much obliged!

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Congrats on the rank up OP!

Rein may be strong but he’s the most skilful unique fun and honourable tank so he deserves to be!

He’s also the accessible tank that gets people into the game who otherwise wouldn’t play it!

Meow!

:mechanical_arm::cat_with_wry_smile::wing:

THIS PLEASE FOR THE LOVE OF FREAKING GOD.

Every other tank feels like they have a viable limit for how much damage they can soak before they have to leg it and get out. Unless rein is literally trying to 1v5 he just does not die anymore.

I genuinely could not tell you the last time I saw a rein shield break. Even on hog solo ulting him, it lasts a ridiculous amount of time against it.

Either nerf his shield capacity or give junkrat a passive that ups his damage against shields to 200%. He could honestly use a niche with all the hitscan slop running around now anyway.

Literally who? No seriously who? I’m sorry but unless you have a consistent team wide focus on a rein who is HEAVILY out of position, this just isn’t true.

And your balance ideas are just ridiculously broken. There is a reason he was heavily nerfed in stadium. There is a reason he was the most obnoxiously broken tank basically EVER in the recent community crafted patch.

You cannot give this character extra movement in his base kit in ANY way.

He is balanced around requiring team assistance to close the gap. And fun fact, that busted amount of shield health lets you cross pretty ridiculous distances for free.

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I agree as a GM Rein main. I do think he should get one nerf and one buff though primarily. Nerf the ultimate cost due to the fire strike buff, but in turn have shield slam base kit.

Rein isn’t bad persay, but the issue is all the characters around him are better.

Stopped reading at, “new player”.