Reason why healing get nerfed

Misleading numbers and I doubt their accuracy anyway.

Except according to you, a support over the course of a game could only erase the damage from one damage source out of 6 potential sources in the game, not 2. Also there’s one less source of damage mitigation, as well as damage. So a lot more of it is seeping through.

The thing is, even if your numbers were correct, there’s no basis to draw a conclusion from them. Healing over the course of 10 minutes really isn’t a big factor in who dies in the fight that is going on right now. Lucio has some of the highest potential heals per ten minutes in the game, no interruption or resource management, wide AOE, etc. Yet his actual healing potential during a live fight is actually rather low. You’d be a fool to expect his 15 hps to keep you alive during a fight unless all of the damage being thrown around is just chip damage. In that case, the healing, as a function of the game, isn’t the big factor you think it is.

Why? Well, if it’s chip damage we’re talking about, then nobody is in position to follow up and secure kills. If someone takes a few bits of damage and pulls back behind a wall, then it doesn’t matter whether or not you had strong heals on your team. You’re still not there to get the kill.

And if you’re not factoring in terrain and situations like that, and you want to look at raw damage numbers? Then let’s look at raw damage numbers. S76 currently hits for 172 damage per second out to 30 meters if memory serves me correctly. Ana and Bap - the two most talked-about supports in the game, have some pretty high healing. But of a single target, what can they do? Well I don’t have exact numbers in front of me, so let’s be generous and say they both do 65hps on the target. That’s 130 hps on a single target that’s taking 42 damage per second more in damage from a single enemy combatant.

Now this also glosses over something important. Ana and Bap both are interval shooters when it comes to heals, so they shoot a single shot of healing, recover, fire again. This means you’re actively doing damage to the target between their shots where they physically cannot put out their main healing. So the target’s health is dipping drastically between shots of healing.

Next up: cooldowns. You thought it’d be clever to point out that both Ana and Bap have healing cooldowns to boost their output. Okay, let’s factor in cooldowns. Ana goes first by virtue of her name coming first alphabetically. Her 'nade will give burst healing to the target plus give a 50% boost to heals. That’s good, but still relies on healing sources hitting the target, so the target is still vulnerable between shots of healing. Bap has a small AOE healing cooldown, but his is heals over time instead of burst, which means you can still burst through it.

Burst you say? Because now that cooldowns are factored in, we get to point out the Helix rockets. And of course, now we also factor in that S76 can headshot. Which means he can utilize a single cooldown and a few random headshots to kill the target anyway.

The last factor is Bap’s lamp. Okay, let’s say that Bap deploys the lamp and saves the target from a kill. Now, depending on the situation, the lamp is easily disposed of anyway and the target still vulnerable, but we’ll set that aside because the strategic victory is still with the S76. At this point, S76, a single enemy combatant, has occupied the time, resources, and valuable cooldowns, of both opposing supports, just for them to save a single person. His damage alone was enough to overwhelm their combined healing. Which means the supports are currently exhausted of their valuable abilities, and his team could have and should have been mopping up the rest of the enemy team that was left without supports.

So yes, a single basic damage source can occupy the resources of both supports and still overwhelm them. Now imagine there’s only two healing sources on a team, and there’s four damage sources (five or six even if your supports are good). And the amount of healing can only go down from there. But the amount of damage goes up drastically. And that’s still not factoring in the plethora of heroes that have assorted one-hit-kills or kill combos that execute so rapidly as to make healing a moot point.


Even if you wanted to make a point that healers could potentially keep someone alive indefinitely (which they mathematically cannot do and never could do), that’s also not a problem. That just means you have to exercise more strategic thinking during the teamfight. All healing resources poured into target A? Switch to target B! Try focus fire with another player on your team. Utilize cooldowns like Ice Wall to make plays and split up the enemy team. Have flankers harass or eliminate one of the supports. You know, try to think your way through the puzzle with something slightly more than simple brute force.

Healing isn’t the problem in this game. It’s simpletons that take to teamfights like an angry ogre. If brute force isn’t working, try something else. There’s a lot of tools in this game to facilitate a kill. Try them.

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this is something people won’t believe you on, even when they hear it straight from the source

tanks are better at doing damage than blocking damage, but people will selectively ignore that fact because they saw a monkey die really quickly on a dev livestream when he jumped in 1v5, got discorded, and burned

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Explains why tanks melt in 2 second :thinking:

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I’m glad that we now have AndyB making posts, but he is not Moses coming down from the mountain. Internal playtests are not the law of God.

I’ve tried out the OW2 mod, watched the PvP livestreams, and I’ve seen no evidence that fights were drawn out in any way. Quite the contrary, things explode all over the shop. You’ll have to give me a better reason not to believe my eyes.

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Not to mention that the people testing OW2 were OWL players who will punish misplays pretty much instantly.

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Maybe for some tanks but it’s kinda hard to believe that’s true for Rein, Orisa, and possibly Sig unless they’re not using their shields at all.

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Because there are like a thousand little details the devs didn’t seem to consider when they decided to go with 5v5.

The overall damage output is lower, but a huge chunk of the Tanks survivability comes from Main and Off-Tank interaction.

A Rein dropping his shield is much more survivable when he has an Off-Tank covering his butt and the damage that is lost due to one less Tank doesn’t even come close to making up for the loss of additional protection through the 2nd Tank.

Now there are 2 possibilities:

1: They are actually fine with Tanks getting blown up in split seconds, because it is fun for the DPS and that’s the only thing which matters.

2: They somehow didn’t know that this was going to happen and now don’t have a clue how to fix this and the hundreds of other balance and gameplay issues that were bound to come up with the switch to 5v5.

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exactly, i would expect to be immediately burned down doing that :poop: on live, even in a masters lobby… much less against owl players. that’s just what happens when you hard commit and get discorded. same thing happens to winston during primal rage :laughing:

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None of these except orisa or in heavy spam comps should be mitigating more damage than they deal.

If they are, you’re probably playing poorly.

Pretty much all of the DPS have too high dps output, with the exception of maybe Mei.

Most needs a nerf of at least 25%, some need 75% even.

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Healing does need to get nerfed slightly to make up for having one less tank to dump heals into. No one will die if heals designed to keep 6 people up stayed in a 5v5 game.

That said, I think the issue people have is that combat penalty for heals. THAT is kind of bad. You can nerf the raw healing numbers, but don’t penalize people just because they fought recently.

I’m just glad it’s not likely to stick.

Even if you had 3 supports people would still die too fast right now. Damage is that high on most DPS characters.

You don’t have a chance to heal any damage because people die before you can. Damage needs to go down or HP pools need to go up.

Sounds like a good time to be a dps main especially with this new sombra rework.

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Healing and sustain is absurdly strong right now depending on the support duo you pick. No amount of heals are gonna save people from bad positions or pushes. There was a point where Mercy’s normal beam made a Winston do only 5 DPS to a target. 5.

Heals should be strong, but not so strong that damage is basically ineffective when you’re being pocketed. Pocketing should give you an advantage in a fight. Not guarantee you not to die.

No.

People die before you can heal them.

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In what? Bronze? Get better at peeling.

Wow. Great counter argument. :roll_eyes:

In plat. In diamond.

Once people start shooting, the healing doesn’t matter because you don’t have time to heal anyone.

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You keep saying the same thing but not providing any specific examples. I’m not inclined to agree with you by just saying “No. You can’t heal anyone.” over and over.

This is the main reason.

With 1 less tank, the team’s health pool is decreased by like 30% or something crazy, meaning heals are less spread out across fewer targets and are across smaller, easier to top off pools. Not to mention team damage output is probably down somewhere around another 15-20% assuming everyone’s roughly even.

If they don’t nerf healing, literally nothing would die.

Only issue is this sorta impacts some heroes more than others. Lucio or Bap who have good utility outside of heals aren’t going to be hit much, but someone like Mercy, who’s almost entirely heals? Yea… gonna be gutted.

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Try outhealing that.

Have fun.

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