Feel like this is more relevant to skill floor than ceiling.
Take Hanzo. Technically he has a skill ceiling higher than Widow. If you were an absolute God, you would have Widow lvls of accuracy, while having Hanzo’s kit and abilities.
However, Hanzo’s kit also makes him easier to play and get value so his skill floor is a lot lower than Widow’s.
lol genji and doom in ‘S’ Tier, dude do you even play those characters
Im not sure I would put winston the same tier as sigma
why does everyone think ana is so hard I swear shes one of the easier supports to pick up and get massive value from
Let me revise this list:
===SKILL FLOOR===
Tank - S Tier - Wrecking Ball and Winston
A Tier - Zarya and Roadhog
B Tier - Sigma and Orisa
C Tier - D.Va and Reinhardt
Dps - S Tier - Doomfist and Widowmaker
A Tier - Echo, Genji, Tracer,
B Tier - Ashe, Cassidy, Sombra
C Tier - Reaper, Soldier, Mei, Pharah and Hanzo
D Tier - Torb, Symmetra, and Junkrat
Support - S Tier - Zenyatta
A Tier - Baptiste
B Tier - Ana
C Tier - Brigitte, Moira and Mercy
D Tier - Lucio
===SKILL CEILING===
Tank - S Tier - Sigma and Wrecking Ball
A Tier - D.Va and Orisa
B Tier - Winston, Zarya, and Roadhog
C Tier - Reinhardt
Dps - S Tier - Doomfist, Hanzo, Sombra and Widowmaker
A Tier - Tracer, Bastion, Genji, Echo, Mei, Junkrat and Pharah
B Tier - Ashe, Soldier 76, Cassidy, Symmetra, Torbjorn
C Tier - Reaper
Support - S Tier - Zenyatta and Baptiste
A Tier - Mercy, Lucio, Ana
B Tier - Brigitte
D Tier - Moira
---- To explain how I ranked this:
SKILL FLOOR asks how much a character can do if you’ve never, ever played Overwatch before. Reinhardt, Dva, Mercy, Lucio, Torb, and Symmetra are literally characters made for that purpose. From there, it becomes a question of what skills or challenges will someone need to overcome to continue to get value from this character in varied situations. That’s, for example, why I listed Baptiste as the second-highest in terms of skill floor; if your team has a fast-moving or flying character, you need to learn how to predictively-aim his healing grenades without relying on splash to heal. That’s even harder to do than aiming down Ana’s sights – imagine if the only option Ana had to heal Pharah was with Biotic Grenade.
SKILL CEILING basically asks, if we could program an AI to have perfect decision-making, precognition and aim, who would get the most value? The obvious answer is ANY high-damage character. Widow, Hanzo and Doomfist are no-brainers. Assuming they play “perfectly”, your team never leaves the spawn room. Sombra, too, to a lesser extent. The same is true to a lesser extent for Zenyatta and Bap – assuming they play absolutely perfectly, your team (or at least the squishies) are dead at the start of every fight and they never die – either because Zen is sniping you from Narnia or because Baptiste just literally can’t die. Tanks were harder to pick here, but Sigma’s burst damage, CC and insane damage mitigation basically means that he basically wins any engagement if he plays perfectly. Same with Ball. The decision I’m not sure about is putting Hog below D.Va and Orisa, but again, assuming those three play perfectly, they never die. The problem with Winston, Zarya and Hog is that they can only block/mitigate/heal a set amount of damage, and there’s some characters they will NEVER kill, no matter how much damage they do. Winston, Zarya and Hog will never kill a perfect-play Orisa or Bastion before either one of them kills them, unless they just never stop shooting her bubble and then let her get close enough to zap them. Ball might also fall victim to a theoretical perfect Orisa / Bastion, but I still ranked him higher because he’d be able to menace more characters than Winston, Zarya or Hog could.
Swap Pharah and Hanzo, swap Lucio and Bap. Otherwise a pretty good list imo.
where is sombra excuse me
For some strange reason she can be outheal by any other support… I dont know why and how.
Easly by mercy, Baptiste, Lucio, bigyeet.
40:60 is Ana, zen. Zen coze ult
idk man
im having more trouble hitting shoots with ana / zen compared to bap
bap is definately easier for me to aim compared to other support
I agree with a öot here, but disagree with following:
I think Winston and Dva should swap. Winston is extremely difficult and only beaten by Balls skill ceilling. Out of Winston you get even more than out of Dva with enough skill
Orisa should move up to B tier. After all the nerfs Orisa is really not as easy anymore, I think she is on a simular lvl than Rein. Still really boring, but not as easy as Hog.
Fortify and halt are 2 couldown which are very easy to mess up and üositioning is important too
I think Ana, Zen and Lucio are very tight together and should all be in S. They all have an incredible skill ceilling. Zen has ton of potential, your mechanics increase your surviveabillity by so damn much and can lead to gamechanging kills, while you charge trans really fast and having trans every 2 fights is incredible value.
Discord orb means Zen needs a good sense for target priority, while hamony orb forces you to keep track of all your flankers and being fragile with no mobillity makes good positioning and good movement a necessaty.
Anas Cooldown have incredible potential with rather high CDs and its easy to get no value at all from them. Easy to mess up + high CD already screams high skill, but having no mobillity and her only way of self heal is wasting her best abillity makes positioning and awareness crucial aswell
Lucio is very different, but again has a constant devisionmaking between speed and healing. His mobillity has a lot of deth too. His AMP is in the high CD, easy to mess up club and can either be a gamechanger, or 30 healing for a Hog, depending on the skill.
His weapon is incredible underated, as Lucios boost is passive, its his job to keep flankers from his 2nd support. That alone increases his skill ceilling a ton, because you need to duell DPS with a burst projectile weapon. Reddit Lucio id a meme, but duell potential is for every high tier Lucio a must have. You can argue he is a bit easier than Ana and Zen, but def. harder than Bap.
I think you can move Baptiste then up to A tier and maybe Brig too, because I think she is between Mercy and Bap with her skill ceilling, but imo a bit closer to Bap. Either high B or low A.
That is value ceilling. Bastion being weak makes it really hard to win with him, but if Bastion would get a huge buff, I wouldnt say he is that skillfull.
I would call what you mean value ceilling, which is a bit different. Skill ceilling is getring the max potential out of a Hero and Value ceilling is how hard it is to get value with it
I was lowkey going to say no one in S tier for support but didn’t want to get canceled
Bap has some very high CDs, but what holds him back a bit I think is following:
He can shoot and heal at the same time. This removes quite a lot of decisionmaking, but allowing him to shoot and heal at the same time, with only a tiny bit less damage as a tradeoff.
Lucio for example can either heal or speed, never both. Ana can never heal and damage at the same time, while she has 3 different shooting modes which all have different advantiges. Zen doesnt has to choose between 2 modes, but has 2 orns he can only give to a single person.
Bap has splash healing and a high range AoE heal abillity, a AoE Lamp and can shoot and heal at the same time, so there arent as many either this or this moments with him and thats what holds a lot of skill back imo. His weapon still allows a lot of value with good aim and lamp can be a huge gamechanger, but Ana Zen and Lucio just have more of these moments.
Another thing is that shift and Lamp always get atleast a bit of value, atleast at high elom In gold you ofcause also see lamps being totally wasted, but in high elo you very rarely see a lamp getting no value at all, while you still see in OWL Nades and Sleeps getting no value at all
Not high enough to make imo field unable to get ultimate status every 24 seconds. When it has to be like 45-60 seconds basically with the value it provides.
How does this
Didn’t get it. When it does the opposite. The only problem with bap being overpowered is that he has basically 2 abilities with an ultimate value, self sustain and crazy mobility on top of that.
The post is about skill, not strenght. Having to make less decisions reduces the skill, therefore being able to do 2 things at the same time reduces the skill
Edit: I think I got the missunderstanding. With “holding him back” I ment holding him back from being a S tier in terms of skill ceilling
This seems a bit toxic…
What I read is, unless you’re playing “A Tier” - then you are not a good player.
Winston and Rein should be in the same tier.
NOPE
McCree, Soldier and Hanzo in the same tier as Mei and Junkrat?
Torb below Junkrat and Mei?
Nah…
this is just a bad post dude, it honestly just shows what the community actually thinks while playing this game. You are really detached from the game’s systems.
I have no reason to respond to a low-effort response like yours, so…
Imaging putting Ana S tier…
With huge … hitbox she got on her abilities and huge … splash area on her bio nade.