Ramattra 3 shots with a Mercy pocket

General Discussion
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Ramattra is considered an average tank (he is actually considered the worst tank right now, but he just released), and I think it’s mostly because people don’t know how to play him. His kit feels overall fair and he probably needs only minor buffs. The main issue with Ramattra according to high elo players are actually not his raw numbers (which are mostly fine), but the fact that so much of his kit relies on long range poke, instead of the ability he is meant to play most of the time, Nemesis form.

What’s interesting is that his signature ability, Pummel, which should also represent the majority of his gameplay, does 55 damage with pass-through. It has about a 0.5s firerate so it’s 1.5s to execute a kill on a 200 HP target, which is too long a time in OW2.

What’s interesting is that with a Mercy pocket, the amount of time needed to execute a kill becomes 1s, because thanks to damage boost, the 4 shot becomes a 3 shot.

It would be interesting to see that yet again Mercy is meta because she creates breakpoints for a hero that is perfectly balanced otherwise or close to that.

HOW LONG BEFORE WE ADMIT THAT DAMAGE BOOST IS THE ISSUE? The pocket bot playstyle, spectator mode hero hold M2 simulator needs a rework.

(this without even going into the risk-free Rez channeling through walls ability but that is a subject for another thread)

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can we even wait for Rammattra to hit ranked before we start shrieking about how Mercy breaks him

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He will be pushed to be meta, like every character Blizzard released in the past, the new hero ALWAYS has to be meta, and not due to monetization but because people like new things, and new metas feel fresh and exciting since people must figure out stuff.

It’s safe to say Blizzard will buff him until he is a meta tank, which means that even if he is average now (which I’m willing to admit), he will be meta at some point hence overpowered with a pocket (just like Echo, Ashe, Hanzo, Widow, Soldier were in the past in OW1).

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Woah, Mercy actually being useful? Can’t have that!

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Delete every useful Mercy to exist

vanishes

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So you’re saying… he’s going to be overpowerd because Blizzard will deliberately make him overpowered… and this a Mercy problem.

Just don’t arbitrarily overbuff heroes for flavor-of-the-month reasons, and then you won’t get knockback effects with heroes that synergize with or counter them being shunted back into the meta. This isn’t a problem exclusive to Mercy, btw.

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Ramattra has great weapon usage but his abilities value are beyond trash. If they don’t buff him then he will barely have playtime except for extremely niche situations.

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Another topic to hate Mercy, oh, did you know that Ana will make Ramattra even stronger with her NANOBOOST? OH WHAT A SURPRISE!!!, Or Kiriko’s ult that enhances everything much more? wow wow, but it’s always Mercy, what a coincidence… what a CHANCE it’s always her.

Mercy is not the issue, sorry :wink: .

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As a mercy player in ow1 i’ve been saying damage boost needs to be removed for years :rofl:

It is unhealthy for the game. It creates problems that otherwise wouldnt exist. As we saw with ashe, as we are now seeing with sojourn (sojourn is still a problem in her own right too. Its not just on mercy) She stops heroes like pharah getting significant changes

I also think from mercy’s perspective it is unhealthy for your role to be diluted down to something as dull as pocketing a dps all game. Is she her own hero, or just an accessory?

I find it funny when other mercy players come scurrying to defend damage boost. As if removing it would somehow make the hero worse?!?!?! Nah hun, removing it would allow mercy to have space for an ability to actually make plays herself rather than rely on dps to hit their shots. But they don’t want the hero to be dynamic. They just want the hero to be easy. I hate how the hero is held hostage because bad players would rather get free value for existing than make their own impact

Do you actually enjoy pocketing your dps boyfriend that much just cus you duo with him and he carries you to masters
:grimacing:
Then you actually make yourself believe that you are a master player now. That you now belong in masters
:grimacing:

But what do I know. she’s fine right? More than fine actually she’s really strong, probably op. Look at the data guys :clown_face:

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I’d like to say that the fact that 1.5s to kill a 200hp target is considered “too long” is the real problem… No one wants time to kill to be too long, but 1.5s is still a reasonable time. Unfortunately we’re in the age of one-shots.

Still, I’d be fine with getting a rework to make Mercy more active rather than just a pocket. But let’s not pretend that Mercy is the reason why Sojourn is still broken, because that’s still Sojourn being broken, Mercy just makes her a bit more broken

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Mercy has been meta for the last like 20 seasons.

S18+: Hanzo Widow meta → Mercy fit that meta well

S22+: Ashe meta → Mercy hard meta

S25+: Echo meta → Mercy hard meta

S28+: Soldier meta → Mercy good enabler

She is literally like Tracer, not a meta hero but fits EVERY comp and is like a very flexible, one-size-fits-all pick

etc.

Now Sojourn is meta (actually BUFFED with a Mercy). Not to mention tank rezing potential (I am fine with rezing DPS or supports, even obnoxiously hard to kill ones like Widow, but rezing a tank is definitely NOT OK). But please Mercymain cry about how your hero “hasn’t been useful in forever” when she has been meta like last 20 seasons.

no, that’s not what I’m saying, you should learn to read, I’m saying that damage boost changes breakpoints and makes a hero that would be healthy in a vacuum (with a TTK of 1.5s which is a very reasonable TTK) into a hero that will likely be obnoxious (with a TTK of 1s which if you factor in human reaction time of 0.2s leaves you with 0.8s to save your teammate).

Ashe
Widow
Echo
Phara
Hanzo
Soldier
McCree (the brief period he was meta)
now Sojourn

ALL nerfed because they were oppressive with a pocket bot. But sure the problem is that those heroes were oppressive! Totally not the fact that most of those heroes have a glass cannon design, and would be easy to kill without the egirl pocket bot making them immortal gods.

Would love to hear your take about how release Echo was OP when in SEITA arena (idk if Mercymains know this mode) Echo was like a top 7 hero at best, the best heroes to get in that mode being Baptiste (a SUPPORT HERO), Tracer and McCree.

Hanzo another hero that was extremely oppressive in s18-s20 (I know most don’t remember that “Hitscanzo” meta, is like a top 8 hero to get in SEITA, he loses most 1v1s vs heroes like Genji, Tracer, Bapt, probably even Soldier beats him most of the time.

Nanoboost is an ultimate I know that Mercy mains have a problem distinguishing ults and basic abilities since their E button has an ultimate attached to it, but playing vs Nano-boost every 1.5-2 min is nowhere as oppressive as playing vs a Sojourn/Phara etc. being PERMA pocketed for 80%+ of the game.

she ruined like 8+ DPS so far in the last 15+ seasons, making them average af without a pocket, try playing anything other than Mercy pls, try playing Ashe with an Ana Lucio in team and tell me how hard you carry when every 50 damage you take from a Genji doesn’t immediately get healed and as a result you have like 30% more downtime due to being forced to play cover.

have you ever tried playing Tracer? I’m a 3.8 Tracer from OW1, and after the latest buff she got, I thought I would destroy lobbies. I do have a positive winrate but healing is so strong (due to there being 1 less tank so supports can focus more on other support/DPS) that sustain heroes (Tracer Soldier etc.) are garbage. Tracer still survives just because she is a “constant force attention” hero, but the reason 1 shots are meta is literally because SUPPORTS HEAL TOO MUCH IN OW2 NOW THAT THERE IS 1 LESS TANK TO HEAL, they buffed tanks to accommodate for them taking more focus fire, they nerfed DPS due to less shields/tanks to mitigate, but they forgot to nerf supports :face_with_hand_over_mouth:

Sojourn is a bit broken but without Mercy in the game she would only be slightly overtuned. Both heroes are a problem and Sojourn needs a slight further nerf but also 8+ DPS getting nerfed in OW1 due to Mercy synergy teach us that DAMAGE BOOST IS A PROBLEMATIC ABILITY.

Again if you think otherwise, please queue DPS on your equilibrium elo, ask your supports to go Ana + Lucio or Ana + Zen, pick Echo or Ashe and see how oppressive those heroes are without a Mercy.

FYI I played at near highest ranks in OW1, went vs T500 hitscan players very often, in OW1 the last 5-10 seasons 70% of the time you would go vs Ashe perma pocketed by Mercy, I don’t think there is less engaging gameplay to go against and it’s a shame because Ashe is such a well-designed character otherwise.

(fyi other than 1 shotting you more easily through healing with headshot-hipshot, or headshot-bodyshot while getting healed combos, Ashe was oppressive in OW1 also cuz thanks to damage boost you would get BOB literally every 40s, BOB in case people don’t know is the strongest DPS ult in the game next to old EMP maybe).

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munch munch
Historically, dmg bst has only shown to be problematic on heroes that can 1shot.

Reinhardt has always had a 2HKO with hammer on Mercy Dmg Bst after his hammer buff, but when was the last time anyone said Reinhardt was a good Mercy pick? You still picked Lucio over Mercy because staying in range of someone with speed boost is more valuable.

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the problem is that most DPS heroes (and tanks to a degree too) must be balanced around doing 30% less damage than intended because then with a Mercy they feel fair and not oppressive to play against. In truth, Blizzard nerfs their damage by ~15% in the end, because you sometimes get a Mercy, and sometimes not, but most DPS do too low damage with their primary fire to accommodate for the fact that they shouldn’t 1 shot when damage boosted.

Rein is a misleading example, it’s a melee hero and Rein already wins most 1v1s if he closes the distance with near full HP. In general most tanks are meant to win 1v1s, here we talk about DPS who would lose 1v1s they are meant to lose but win with a Mercy pocket.

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…this is a troll right? No way someone actually thinks this way. Like ya when 2 heroes work together and a support attaches itself to another hero as an accessory it brings the ttk on 1 skill down by a whole .5 seconds, that must be the result of the support being op.

Where did all this hate for damage boost come from?

Why is it exclusively mercy and barely ever any mention of zen despite his being 10 times stronger?

Why is this not the fault of the op hero she has to attach to?

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Roadhog with a Mercy can do a nice 214,5 body shot, tHaTs BuStEd!1

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when the support character ruins every hero that is meta, and the support hero never gets nerfed but the meta characters do, then yes it’s time to admit that Mercy is the problem because she makes whatever DPS is strongest at that time into oppressive. There will always be a meta DPS but we can’t keep nerfing DPS that are strong because they turn from strong to oppressive with a permabeam.

It is statistically unlikely that if you have 8 problems, composed of 2 heroes, and 1 hero is present in all 8 problems, and the 2nd hero is always variable (Echo, Hanzo, Sojourn, Pharah, Soldier, McCree etc.), that the problem is the 2nd hero. The problem is probably the hero that is present in all 8 cases, statistics teaches us.

This not to mention that the effort required to play Mercy is minimal, you hide behind walls and hold M2, it’s literally a spectator hero, no wonder most support players openly refuse when you ask them “go Mercy pls”.

Because Zen has a worse hitbox, he doesn’t also have a Rez, and what the Zen team gains in terms of damage, they lose in terms of healing. Not to mention Zen needs to aim, he needs to know how to survive… it’s a far harder hero to play than Mercy and while at highest level Zen is oppressive also, at least a Zen is only as good as his aim and awareness. Meanwhile every Mercy who can play cover and hold M2 on the eboy (M1 when he is taking damage) is a GM Mercy.

Roadhog can 1 shot without a damage boost, so dmg boost doesn’t add value to Hog. Mercy is oppressive with a Hog mostly cuz you can Rez him (Valk if needed), the amount of resources to kill a Hog is simply too high to have to kill him twice.

I mean there are literally Mercys on NA who queue with Hog mains abusing this synergy which while not strong in OWL is definitely strong on ladder. It’s not like the best synergy for a Mercy (best one being Phara or Sojourn or Ashe probably), but not the worst, either.

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Thing is, while you’re boosting his punches you’re not healing him and ironically he really needs to be healed in nemesis form.

Unless he’s blocking in which case you’re “boosting” 0 damage.

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he doesn’t because it’s the same as Rein, you have ~600 HP, sure you take a lot of damage but if you play your cards right, you rarely suffer 600 dmg before you do 200 back.

Average case is like, you take ~400 damage, do 200 and get a kill, then block and get healed back. But really it depends on what enemy team plays, not every team goes the highest damage comp possible like Zen Junkrat Bastion, vs those heroes yes you can swap Ramattra or you know use one of his other abilities bound on M2 which is exactly intended for such cases.

Ramattra can execute a kill before suffering lethal damage, every tank in general can kill at close range faster than they are killed, that’s how tanks are balanced.

1.5s → 1s time to execute a kill is -33% less time to execute a kill and in OW terms, that’s massive.

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For the hundred gazillion time:
Damage boosts means no heal, so its a trade off and yes, its balanced.

So yeah, if one of your supports decides to not heal to do damage or help someone else deal more damage, thats the trade off. Complaining about that is like complaining about Ana helping Ramattra with 1 shot, effectively making it a 3 shot too.

If that is balanced, then Mercy refusing to heal in order to damage boost its balanced too.

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…that’s supposed to be unbalanced, yet alone on the same level as boosting Soyjourn’s railgun? Also his punch projectiles have some travel time, so in practice it’s still a bit more than that.