They should totally add “dungeons” and raids to the PvE part of OW2
The answer is we’re already at the minimum. If you nerf Winston and Hog instead of buffing people like Doomfist and Junker queen then you might as well give up on 5 v 5 and bring back a second tank. Most tanks are actually not that much better than their OW1 versions even now.
How do you know this?
The thing most people miss is that they dont NEED to be that much stronger than their OW1 counterparts, since they were already the strongest role, just fit on the new format more with indepedency, so as long as only their stats are nerfed but they keep being indepedent and strong enough to do their job, they are still good.
People tend forget that its 1 less very strong player on either team, that did alot of damage and alot of pressure, meaning tanking in itself is less needed, they dont need to be as effective as 2 players when theres 1 less player, thats absurd.
Ofc, i dont think its that bad, if i had to take a bit of a guess, i’d say the meta tanks are only around 10-25% off while the non meta ones are maybe only 5-10%, through estimatives ofc i got no idea, but overrall too strong and they should at LEAST try and nerf some of that power away to see where they land.
The “best” role that nearly nobody wanted play.
2 Likes
strength doesn’t equal enjoyment. ow2 supports are strong, but nobody wants to play them.
2 Likes
Woops, misphrased, meant “strongest” role.
Edited it.
you want to talk about only the factor that benefits your point.
D’va also pushes into 1 less tank. So it’s not just 100 more armor, it’s 100 more armor - 1 less strong opponent.
BIG difference.
1 Like
Low skill, insta kill meta…
where an entire role has to work 10x harder for their results, while minding more factors to get the same results and at best creates a strong foundation for others to work off.
It’s not hard to see why, I like these things, but it’s super easy to see why other don’t.
The devs have balanced themselves into a corner, they either nerf everything and make many mad, or buff supports and make many mad. like think of what they would have to do to make support feel, whats the trendy word… Impactful… Jezus…
Thats what happens when you make huge changes and do nearly nothing to balance for it.
The thing is that they aren’t twice as strong, not by a long shot. The role is maybe 60% as strong as it was in OW1. Tanks are only just barely stronger on an individual basis than they were in OW1. Only a handful of minor nerfs could basically put the role close to 50% of OW1 which would be a huge mistake because they must be stronger to feel useful. Anything even close to approaching the level they were at in OW1 would irreparably damage the game beyond repair.
D.Va doesn’t have 100 more armor than OW1 though. I’ve explained a couple of times that I was mistaken. Maybe I should go fix the original post, but I don’t like to cover up my mistakes.
D.Va has 50 more health than OW1, no additional armor. She’s actually just barely stronger than what she was originally. But now she is by herself. So, the role is significantly less strong than it was in OW1 overall.
2 Likes
Yeah, somewhere along the lines of 60% as strong as the whole role once was, the thing is, when we cut back down to the player count, then look at how tanks were far, far stronger than they needed to but not experienced by much of the player base, since it needed both tank players to play in tandem to extract its full value, that gets to at least 120% of needed strength, likely more, wich where i put them as well.
Even just being the same strenght as back on OW1 as a role wich roughly translates to 100% strength now, since its half the player count and 1 less player on each team, likely is already too much, since it no longer requires in sync synergy with another player.
And could be looked at the very least get it as close 100% of the past role power wich it shouldnt be right now since the characters have all been buffed significantly, so just as strong as they once were as themselves ( by basically reducing their stats but allowing their kits to be less dependent of a off/main tank )
And i think, if done well enough, wouldnt damage the game beyond repair at all, that is, imo, going at a steady rate of nerfing specific meta characters will show where the line of unplayability and damage is without breaking the whole game.
Because clearly, having one role that is also only 1 player be the best role even when compared to one that has 2 players is clearly an unhealthy thing to have and that is actually the truth right now, when games are decided through the tank player more than any other role, even though its 1 player.
And having that power reduced to experiment with a healthier place for the role in my opinion must be a good thing overral, wich the easiest way being nerfing the meta tanks, over and over without buffing any of them, not in a pure power increase way.
Dont get me wrong though, as far as i can see, the tank role needs to be the strongest role to function but that doesnt mean they cant experiment until we hit that line where they are the strongest but not overly strong.
…Though, that as per usual is only going to dawn at the player base too late, i think, with Season 2 and Ramattra, Doom and Queen buffs throwing the role on the spotlight and the balance into chaos because of it too, people are going to start realizing that, if not still even later, if changes dont target that. (that is if i’m not completely wrong).
TL;DR Tanks were too good even on OW1, no way that translates to being even stronger buffed versions now, can definetly be fixed without breaking the game as long as is done well by slowly nerfing the tanks stats, and should be good for the game cuz having too much of the game in the games of one role with one player is obviously bad.
Do what I sometimes do and just edit your original post in a form like this:
Original comments. ~~Cross out the mistake~~ (double tilde encased text usually rendered with strike-through style) or use < del> < /del> html tags. I.e.,cross out the mistakeCorrected: it should be +50 hp with 300 armor.(credit: DmonDiff) <-- this is clickable
That way, it preserves your post while showing future readers you admitted to have made a mistake, and corrected it while caring to give credit where it is due. Guaranteed to make everyone happy.
I suggest quoting my comment to take a look at how I created the fancier stuff above, in case you are interested and don’t know.
1 Like
Forums are complicated. I will never have this much prowess lol
Hey look I did the cross thingy yay
1 Like
Just quote anyone with an interesting formatted post to learn how they did it if you’re interested. I always enjoy seeing something new myself. 
W3Schools has some useful tutorials on markdown, many of which are supported on this forum.
Example for the “details-summary” tags I used:
1 Like
If we’re talking great places to learn forum tricks:
3 Likes
Thanks! I was digging through my bookmarks trying to find that page! 
1 Like
Thanks, I took your advice and fixed the original comment. Appreciate the markdown help.
1 Like
Glad to help. 
1 Like
When your own team is already your worst enemy, making things even harder is a deal breaker.
1 Like
I want to help my team so bad… but like yeah… its exactly as you say…