😡 Why are Symmetra players Angry at the "Rework"?

General Discussion
616

“It’s just a car”, right? :wink:

2 Likes
617

I say, like old orbs could pierce shields, primary should ignore armor.

Easiest solution without impacting current build.

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618

By boring, I mean not unique, not different enough to other heroes to make it interesting.

I find the beam more reliable at close range, that is the incentive for me to use it, that and the fact it can’t be deflected by Genji or absorbed by defense matrix.

619

I tell the same thing I tell my fellow developer when we have to kill their projects. At least you got paid and learned from this experience. In your case, at least you dropped hundreds of hours into a pointless game :confused: No sense in getting pissed off. Just learn the new re-work or play a difference toon.

620

I think it has something to do with the fact they drastically changed her kit, ruining some of the reasons og sym players enjoyed her, while also making her worse in almost every way.

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621

Just annoying when people think their favorite hero is the only one that requires strategy and game sense.

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622

That’s why I hate the word “game sense”. Because it’s a buzzword. It have no established definition.

About the strategy… nope, there are heroes that can work with zero reliance in strategy and purely by tactical choices. Mercy is the best example, because everything she do is in reaction to a trigger someone else do. You can’t make strategic decisions with Mercy because her strategy don’t survive contact with the enemy, when chaos ensure.

Symmetra was the most strategic hero in the game. She absolutely relied in reading the flow of the fight and preparing in advance because if she waited until the enemy is on sight to setup her stuff, she simply would not have enough time to do so, and then half of her kit were useless. The heroes that come closer to the level of strategy that Symmetra required are Sombra and Bastion.

Most heroes requires a combination of strategic plan, tactical decision, and reaction time to work. But the exact value or form you need to pull from each portion of those requirements vary by hero. That’s and their unique mechanics are what make the character recognizable.

I was expecting to lose one or maybe two unique aspects of Sym’s kit with the rework. I wasn’t expecting to lose all of them at once (autolock weapon, piercing projectile, swarming turrets, shield generator, teleporter).

2 Likes
623

I use that term because I figure most people would understand what it meant without having to write four paragraphs to explain it.
Mercy is a good example of a hero that requires good understanding of how a particular game is playing out and adapting to it (game sense).

624

You don’t need to write four paragraphs to define something that is that basic to the game. I’ll give you examples.

  • Positioning is learning where you should stand to maximize your role efficiency while minimizing the chances of you dying.
  • Strategy is the plan you develop before the combat starts, that will guide your decisions through the next fight.
  • Tactic is the plan you develop while combat is happening and you have to react fast to put it in practice.
  • Skill ceiling is the theoretical maximum capability of a hero. Or, alternatively, the point where there is diminishing returns in trying to improve your skill with said hero.
  • Hitscan is when your bullet have no travel time. What is on your cursor when you click the button is what you hit.
  • Shotcaller the person in the team responsible to transmit to everyone tactical information or instructions.

Game sense can’t be summed like that because it’s a buzzword. What most people define game sense is usually a merge of experience, intuition, ult/cooldown tracking, hero knowledge, and a lot of other minor skills.

2 Likes
625

I just want the old Sentry hologram animation back…

626

That was always the crux of Symetra’s design problem.

You can’t have a character with utility as powerful as her teleporter and then have her be good at anything else.

Remember, characters are supposed to be good at both roles and having Symetra be a one trick dog that’s only good on defense, only on certain maps, and only for certain legs of the conflict wasn’t acceptable.

627

Pretty sure tp/sg weren’t removed because it was too “bloated”

Tp was changed because it was too situational.

Her new ult is kind of meh and her new tp is redundant.

628

Got to say that making her a shield breaker is a super cool idea, i love it.

And for how much she ll be played in season 11, definitely let’s see, keeping an argument about it won’t make sense.

But for the low tier arrgument i don’t see why it would be false haha just by curiosity at which tier did you play? I didn’t go really high but back when i was diamond, players would just switch and stomp grumping, and erase the enemy symmetra quickly and efficiently. In low tier (i’ve go down to silver on asia server last season) that’s the only place where you can have a chance because of the lack of communication… Not even skill, but mic communication (asian don’t speak much on their server, and the lower you go the worse it is). I mean, i got your point with the pro scene and even agree with it, pro scene doesn7t reflect the overall community feeling and way to play. But that’s exactly because the overall community felt the hero was boring and bad blizz needed to change it. Not buffing, change.
Her kit could be hella funny and, i’m sorry to insist but super easy to play definitely (predicting where the players will go when you got 3 possible entry, wow such chess) but didn’t allow more creativity in the gameplay (wow, spider trap from symm on the left entry of anubis, what a genius move…)

Sym 2.0 was fun, i loved it. Sym 3.0 jsut looks better. But definitely one interesting point could be the shield breaking abilty.

629

Defending Hanamura or Volskaya with Symmetra was easy mode. Try locking down Horizon, or learning how to make her useful in Lijiang Tower. The main reason why I liked Horizon to the point it was my favorite map is exactly because defending it was not easy mode. It was very fun going through the mindgames to lock a map that open and succeed by discouraging people through a path using orbs, and baiting the flankers on the other side with her ult.

But even in the easy maps, there is room for creativity and paths to outsmart the opponent. Not putting all your eggs in a single basket was a major component of that. You mention a spider trap in Anubis left side. Then the enemy team see you spamming orbs that way and simply go right instead of going left. The real trick is placing the turrets around the area before the mid-ground, make them think your turrets are on left, and fry them when they force right or center. If they force the way through left to rush you, you can orb 4 people at once, and retreat back to the large pack while calling for backup of your team in the midground.

Filter by winrate, in any time period that is not “this week” (since she is locked from comp). Go through all the ranks. Her winrate is basically the same in all ranks.

Now do the same and compare Bastion and Widowmaker winrates through the ranks. See if you notice any difference between their variance and Symmetra’s variance.

That’s why I suggested that Blizzard invested some time in a page similar to League Summoner’s Code, to properly teach the players how to work with each hero their intended way (creative uses still encouraged) and keep everyone in the same page regarding common terms and tactics.

Reworks are always a problematic tool to use because you risk alienating your playerbase, even the ones that don’t play the reworked hero, because they might think their own beloved hero might be changed at any moment. And I think Symmetra was a case of a rework made to appeal to the community, not because Sym stats or balanced status was in check. But in doing so, they removed her identity, and indirectly endorsed all people who false reported us for “throwing”.

5 Likes
630

Eventually someone will realize that listening to the ravings of the masses will not entail quality work. Blizz might as well shut out rational thought entirely and give in to madness. I’m sure they’re nervous about the backlash that’s going to happen today when Symmetra hits competitive.

2 Likes
631

just fine actually, ty

632

Sym 3.0 should really have been a new hero - let’s call her Sumitra.

When you replace the Symmetra Teleporter with the Sumitra Teleporter, you run into a major issue - Turret Bombs.

Putting 3 Turrets on the ground and teleporting them is not only out of character for Symmetra but completely imbalanced and unfair to certain enemy heroes, who cannot kill a 300 hp, 150dps Teleporter of Doom.

This is easily solved by giving Sumitra an entirely different set of constructs that can be Teleport but do not stack due to their inherent movement.

Perhaps Sumitra summons 3 Hard-Light Spider Mechs that follow her around and target anyone in melee range.

Or perhaps she can cast these Spider Mechs on allies and they will follow and protect that ally.

Perhaps she summons Hard-Light Drones instead that attack and follow enemies instead of defending herself and allies.

Strong, mobile constructs that are constantly moving and not easily teleported.

1 Like