"Quick" Idea for Tanks

Hello!

Just wanted to post my quick thoughts on what I believe might be a good idea to help “fix” the tank role. Hoping maybe some of the devs possibly still read the forums but I know that’s a longshot. Here’s my feedback though just in case!

So, it’s no secret that the tank role is really, really struggling right now. It has felt probably the worst it’s been to play in quite a while now, maybe even since the start of OW2, but I think that is because of one main issue: identity. To me, it seems like the roles of Overwatch have lost a bit of their identities, with this being most prominent on tank (I think it is true somewhat on support too and by proxy DPS but I’ll get to that later).

What I mean is each role of this game is unique and the jobs they’re supposed to be doing throughout a match are different. I absolutely love that about the game though and always have since the very beginning: a team coming together to each do their unique jobs and execute a plan to win. That aspect about the game just makes it so different and fun compared to other FPS games out there I feel, and I think deep down the community does as well even if they might complain about not being able to solo carry like as if they were playing counterstrike.

With that in mind, my ideas of what each role does are as follows:

A) The Tanks - Absorb damage and cooldowns as well as draw attention away from other
squishier targets on their team

B) The DPS - Put out the highest amount of damage and secure eliminations

C) The Supports - Heal their allies and enable their team (whether through healing or other buffs such as speed or damage boost)

What I think is the most off here is the tanks’ ability to do pretty much most of their jobs. In all the hype about moving over to 5v5 and making the game more individually skill-based the tank’s role got lost. To me, it seems like the sentiment was to move everyone towards a more damage dealing style of play, but in the end that just really ended up encroaching on the DPS’s job, which made those characters feel pretty useless for the longest time (remember all those seasons where DPS just felt like they had no impact), and is likely (at least partially) a factor that went into the decision to up the health pools and give the DPS the larger projectile hitboxes & passive they have today. As mentioned earlier, I also feel that the support role followed somewhat of a similar path as well, which again goes into the DPS role feeling useless for a good bit of time, although I don’t think the supports’ jobs got nearly as forgotten as the tanks since healing is still a huge (and quite obvious) part of the game.

So, what is there to do then? Well, I think we start by separating the roles a bit more into what they should be (in my humble opinion that is). To start off, I think tanks should not do as much damage. I don’t mean as in they do barely any damage at all, but definitely much less than what they’re doing now. In return though they need tools to survive and do their jobs more effectively. There would definitely need to be more damage mitigation for just the tank (maybe in the form of a revamped passive) so that they don’t just continue exploding. They need to be… well… tanky to say the least. There’s also other things the devs were doing that seemed like good ideas but never fully came to fruition.

For example, I think the devs were on the right track with removing CC from other characters outside the tank role and only giving it to tanks in the first place (especially in the 5v5 format since there’s only ever one tank per team at a time; hence only one person on each team can CC on a cooldown at a time). I believe they should keep doing this with even more abilities, such as getting rid of Mei’s freeze slow, Cassidy’s hinder, sombra’s hack interrupt, and even Ana’s sleep dart to name a few (yes, even the sleep dart). I myself am still on the fence about boops. I think they’re fine for the most part as long as they’re not on an extremely short cooldown but I could see a world where they get too strong if they’re buffed too much. So overall, tanks are the only ones who’d get CC abilities and with less damage being dealt by tanks in this scenario I think they’d need those abilities to help survive and still provide immense value to their team.

Next for tanks, and this is probably the most radical thing I’d do for the role just to see if it would work, is give all of them complete immunity to all CC. I’ve been debating with myself on whether or not it would need to be all the time or maybe they’d have like 2 charges of CC immunity that’d have to recharge over some period of time so that eventually they could be CC’d if they get too greedy perhaps (probably the latter). I feel this would be the perfect thing to make up for the decrease in damage too. You could go try to make plays even with the less damage and not have to worry about getting stun locked for 8 seconds while you explode. Also, there’s a possibility it could help with some of the counterswapping as well somewhat although not fully (with OW having different heroes with different kits there’s just always going to be one with a kit that is more affective against another than others).

I think these changes would go a long way to helping the tank role feel much better and much more like a tank to play. I know some people might complain that less damage would feel horrible and that you can’t kill anything on your own (or solo carry in other words), but that is mainly the DPS’s job to secure elims anyways as stated above. OW is a team game and you need to work with your team to win; that is truly the core of the game at its heart and what makes it so fun! The other aspect of these changes to think about is that as a tank it will also feel much, much better and more impactful as well as fun (I believe) to play when you do absorb damage and/or CC cooldowns for your team that would have otherwise changed a fight; basically, you could be an actual tank in the truest sense playing like that. That’s what the role’s job is! Also, again, not saying the damage needs to be insufferably low, but low enough just to compensate for the CC immunity and survivability tanks would get (and to not encroach so much on the DPS role of course).

Quick side note: there could be a situation where if tanks were made too survivable they could end up stalling for way too long, but it could also be that if they were nerfed any further then they’d just start exploding again. In this case, if balance cannot be reached for each tank (although I suspect it can be) a rule might need to be implemented for stalling capture points and payloads where if you outnumber the enemy tank the cart/capture progress continues anyways. I think that is an extreme case though and not likely with some balance tweaks over time.

Lastly, I did want to mention the supports. I am a support player myself and I do believe that over the course of OW2, and maybe OW in general, supports damage numbers have been getting bigger and bigger too. This is more of just a small addition, but these numbers might need to be looked at to make sure supports aren’t just DPS with healing abilities. Not saying supports only need to heal either, just that the role should primarily be enabling your team by healing and other things such as speed or boosts.

Anyhow, thanks for reading all that if you did. I’d be interested to hear any constructive thoughts on the ideas above. I’m positive I haven’t accounted for every flaw this might bring about, but from what I’ve run through in my head it seems like it’d be a better direction for the game to move in. Love this game and I hope it continues to get better and better as time goes on!

They will never give tanks immunity to Ana’s ‘’‘’‘‘iconic’’‘’‘’ sleep and nade braindead combo.

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I know it does seem crazy and when I was first thinking about all of this I too was even like, “I guess this would mean removing Ana’s sleep dart. It’s iconic though and a skill shot right?!” Ana has had her sleep dart since the very beginning too, but in the world of 5v5 I think it’s just necessary to remove all the hard CC we can (even if it was 6v6 still CC doesn’t feel that great either, but at least you had another tank to peel for you if needed). Not advocating for either format cause I think both have their perks, but if we want to truly give 5v5 a shot I think the changes I listed would be a good start.

Sure, but the damage changes will hurt dive tanks far more than the others. What’s the point of jumping in as Doomfist or Winston if severely reduced damage means you can’t get a pick? You’d be completely reliant on teammates helping = making dive tank impossible in solo play.

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Like I mentioned in my post, I’m not saying that you make tank damage insanely low all around. In some cases it might have to be lowered quite a bit while in others it might stay nearly where it is now. It would definitely need to be looked at on a per tank basis. I was more trying to think about the overall philosophy of each role and how they should function in my own opinion. I’d really have to sit down for a while to come up with all the exact numbers and changes I’d make to each hero to get there though for sure.

For a quick example, I think hog’s damage would need to be lowered if he had CC immunity and more survivability. If he had those then he most definitely shouldn’t be one-shotting anybody (honestly one-shots shouldn’t be a thing very much at all in the game except under certain circumstance i.e. a Widow fully charged, well placed, headshot on a squishy or an ult etc.). Whereas Winston could probably stay relatively the same with more minor damage adjustments; he might still have to be adjust for sure if he can’t be CC’d for at least the first 2 cooldowns according to my ideas but his numbers now aren’t too far off I think.

Also, again, with OW being a team game I think solo carrying shouldn’t be much of a thing either. Like I was saying above in my post too, teams need to work together to execute a fight win and the team that does it the best should win by all accounts. If we keep going in the direction of every hero should have the ability to solo carry a fight we’re just going to end up becoming Call of Duty or a counterstrike clone one day in the far future. I don’t think that’s what Overwatch wants to be though at its core. I think it’s a cool idea that each role adds value to a fight in their own way.

Now, in this case it might seem like it’d only be the DPS that add value then since they’d be the ones securing most of the eliminations, but that brings me to another point about value that I guess I didn’t really go over in my original post too much. I think value doesn’t have to just be damage. I did kind of touch on that when I said it seems like the original idea with 5v5 seemed to be to give everyone more damage to improve individual skill-based expression, but I think we’re seeing now that is not working out too much. When I think of value for each role it is different; for the DPS it’s damage, for the supports its healing (or other buffs), and for tank it’s absorbing damage/cooldowns but there’s also another way tanks can add value that I didn’t point out very heavily earlier (at least this aspect of it): CC. Tanks being able to CC people adds a ton of value, especially to DPS players trying to secure that elim. Not sure if this entails reworking CC into each tank so they can have that value when their damage numbers are reduced, but it might if that’s what they end up needing.

It’s worth pointing out again here that the CC would only be coming from the tanks (besides maybe boops), so only 1 player from each team would be able to use it (basically saying that CC wouldn’t and shouldn’t be everywhere all the time cause we all know that didn’t feel great in OW1). It would also definitely require some tuning to make sure the tanks couldn’t throw it out all the time either.

The last thing I wanted to note since we started talking about Ana is that I think if we’re taking CC away from some of the supports then we might need to consider giving each one an escape or other ways of dealing with being dove (like boops for example, although I don’t think every support should have a boop for sure).

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Hear me out bro, listen carefully, this is how we help tank players … 6 v 6

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But should tanks be immune, or even resist things like sleep? Tanks with some of the strongest CC in the game and abilities that outright block sleep and nade? Tanks like Roadhog than can just walk up and hook targets, and then leave?

Of course, then people would say “Just remove sleep, and rework each and every character that’s indirectly buffed by that!” but this plan isn’t feasible. It would take Overwatch 3 to do something like that.

Ana and Zen would be obsolete without sleep anti and discord. Winston clicks jump and m1 and you just die. No counter play. That’s what would be fun to most of the feeding tanks. They can turn their brain off and still be rewarded for stupid plays picking hog or mauga and running it down mid on 200hp
While we’re at it let’s also remove suzu and IF because they are no fun.
Let’s also remove boop so Lucio and Brig are also obsolete.
Let’s also complain about Moira being ez value.
Let’s also complain that Mercy and lifeweaver are impossible to kill so mobility needs to be nerfed.
Are there any supports left?

Prob the best fix you can think. Other than removing discord nade suzu lamp

All that typing when all they need to do is fix ana, discord and work out how to stop quite so much countering. Tank will never be fun with Ana in almost every game. And I mean never. She is the common factor with tank players struggling to enjoy the game and her being in almost every game.

I typed this while actually in a game where Ana has slept and naded me more than 4 times (4 times slept, probably 6 times naded) and now I am just standing outside spawn as I can’t be bothered facing that combined with orisa.

I’m honestly not opposed to this myself. I was an offtank player in OW1 and I really do miss the tank synergies and duoing with my buddy, but you know what was best about it? Each role had an identity back then. Tanks were tanks, not just larger DPS! I’m telling you, it’s the identity thing that is making everything feel so bad for tanks, supports, and the dps altogether.

At the same time, I’ve gotta say that 5v5 isn’t bad either. I do feel like the DPS (namely the flankers) have more agency because they’re not getting blocked by offtanks anymore so I’m willing to give it a fair chance since we’re so committed to that format at the moment. You’ve gotta admit, it really hasn’t had the fairest shot to see what it can really do yet with the balance we’ve had so far.

10 seasons in and devs are still missing with everything they do. Balance is awful, nothing that was promised is achieved, competitive system is made so you stay in same rank as I’m 100% sure they know what players are leaving so they artificially keep you in same rank so q times are not insanely long. The fact that I’m need to get 5 game win streak to enable win steak bonus for 1% in fifth game, and in 6th I got 2%, by 9th I was getting same 2%, don’t know what is at 10th game as I didn’t even bother to play any further as after 10 seasons I finally understood how bad is this game.

The fact that this is a tip of this iceberg called Overwatch 2. There is no future for this game with this dev team.

Happy to say that I’m quitting this game, sadly it took me 10 seasons. Wasted time and ironic how I have this nickname. Could have invested my time better.

I think immunity is definitely way too extreme- however

At this point I do think cc from non tanks, should have a different “reduced” effect against tanks.

Since this isn’t a PvE game with an Aggro system for tanks to control enemy attention they have to do it with damage instead. Otherwise the enemy team would just fully ignore your tank and always dive the backline.

A support shouldn’t be pulling more damage than a DPS, yes, but if you nerf their damage down to much then they are just a free pick to any Tracer or Genji in the backline again.

Just add all CC’s into their 30% passive. Discord and burn duration as well.

To elaborate more I think the problem is that there are simply far too many “disables” that exist outside the tank class.

I imagine the developers envision these disables being used against feisty genjis or tracers flanking the support -

But the reality is it’s far easier and more effective to just dump them into the tank 90% of the time.

A “30% reduction” works for things like boops. But it doesn’t address the straight up disable spam that faces tanks.

I think 5 v 5 can work and arguably can work better- but the Cc spam on the tank needs to be addressed. If they’re not going to reduce the amount of CC in the game like they’d said they intended (every hero since sojourn has launched with some form of Cc) - I feel a new approach may be necessary.

I could be wrong but other than Cassidy, Sombra, Junk, and Ana all the other non tank CC’s are just boops or slows. And the only new non boop/slow CC added was Cassidy swapping from flash to hinder. Mei’s ult technically and her wall, but again that’s an old one (and I forget if Brig still stuns or not, they keep going back and forth on that one).

Agreed it feels like your in a pinball machine sometimes if they are running certain tank/dps/support’s all together with enough CC’s to stack on one person. They could possibly add a Diminishing Returns system like for CC’s in WoW where getting hit by to many in quick succession makes you immune for a few seconds till the Diminishing Returns buff falls off.

I do like this idea here actually of making it so they would get the immunity after maybe 1 or 2 CC cooldowns have been used on them, at least for just a few seconds after so that they wouldn’t be chained into a stun lock situation. That would be an interesting way of doing it. Would you count boops as a CC cooldown in your idea or would that not be enough?

Also, to your earlier reply, I do see where if they make the tanks’ damage too low then everyone would just ignore them. That would be the trickiest part of the balance in my opinion (nerfing damage enough so that tanks wouldn’t be OP with CC immunity but also keeping them threatening enough that people wouldn’t ignore them entirely). My argument here would be that at least the identity of what a tank should be would be back at the forefront, and it would just be a matter of getting the numbers right, which I’m confident they could do with a little time.

To your point about the supports, I agree and definitely don’t want to just become fodder for dive. The ability to fight back is good to have for sure. I just feel like some supports get carried away and start trying to DPS the whole game, which I’ll admit I’m guilty of myself sometimes. Not to say they shouldn’t do any damage.

I think 5 v 5 can work and arguably can work better- but the Cc spam on the tank needs to be addressed. If they’re not going to reduce the amount of CC in the game like they’d said they intended (every hero since sojourn has launched with some form of Cc) - I feel a new approach may be necessary.

The fact that you contradict yourself, this can only be solved in 6v6, as if they remove those abilities dps can free farm backline, so only option is to go back to 6v6 so there is another player who can take those abilities on himself instead of them being spammed on 1 target.

Of course there is a lot of balancing to be made, but this single change will make tank life easier, but sadly balance will not ever be achieved as this DEV team has shown already numerous time that they are completely out of touch with this game.

Every patch that they make they make it worse, buffing orisa, buffing lw who can just deny every engage with 1 easy ability across the map, new dps hero WHO HAS CC when they stated that there will be less CC and CC will be tank exclusive, so on and so on.

I think you missed the point here, which was 5v5 can work, but in order to get there the devs need to follow through with the vision, such as with the CC spam removal for example (along with some other things). If they’re not going to do that though then a format change might be necessary.

Your thinking seems very 1 dimensional though. Don’t get me wrong; I understand the 6v6 sentiment. I like that format better myself, but I also don’t think 5v5 is bad either. What I mean is that you seem to think 6v6 will be an instant fix if that were to be the only thing they changed right now, but you even say in your post that if we did go back to 6v6 a lot of balancing would need to happen. The same can be said for 5v5. Either way they go from the state the game is in now, a lot of balancing has to be made in order to work things out.

My only real issue with going back to 6v6 is that I think it would take a lot more balancing and a lot heavier changes to make that format work. At least more than it would be to try some things out to see if 5v5 can work. That is most likely because we are so committed to the 5v5 format right this moment though, and since we’re already there, why not just try some of these changes I suggested or whatever the devs want to try. If they don’t work then we can really get into the format change discussion.

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