Tanks creating space for DPS is just a meme, in situations where the choke is camped the DPS need to “make space” for the tanks by trying to back cap the point in order to force the enemy away from the choke.
Technically you can do your best Tracer impersonation with Wrecking Ball as well.
In the scenario I was talking about, they mainly had beams. I suppose I really just had an issue with their high damage team that had beams. I think taking a different path to make them more forced to set up more would have worked. Also another thing mentioned here was splitting the team. I never really thought of that, because I think my mind is really forced to punish flanking. However, correctly timed. I’ve had issues going against it so I’m sure it could also work in my favor.
Usually long distance pathing I don’t struggle with. Because I think a lot of things begin to split off so the enemy’s focus fire is less so on me, but more so trying to catch anyone who strays away from my shield.
But when the chokes are really close up in your face, I seem to just instantly melt. I think part of it is because I’m going to the same choke which kinda lets the enemy team prepare to blast away. But then again, there’s also maps like King’s Row, to where sometimes you can’t even safely go to the statue before everything melts away. Which then makes everything else become sloppy because if you tried to go straight there, you are forced to committee to it or back off for your team. Either way it usually ends up a death due to the fact if you back track you have to go a long distance with a huge hitbox without a shield. And if you committee then most likely your team couldn’t follow you due to how fast everything went down.
I suppose at that point you could ask your team to help you out. Which, is one of those times like “Ah yeah, why didn’t I think of that” but a lot of the times I have a mindset of me not being able to pull off my job is just my fault. But looking back, Sym tele is used so frequently to get the entire team to point. I don’t think asking for help is inherently bad. I more so just get embarrassed because it almost feels like a confession that I’m failing at what I should be doing.
As for my rank, kinda climbing pretty rapid rn. Almost 3300. So I guess the advice to continue the climb would be nice. but any advice that gives advice for 3000+ is helpful. Tho I know tanking here and there. I’m new to executing it myself.
And lastly, but this is more so a separate statement. I don’t want to be told the dps or another role needs to be doing their job thus making my job easier. I understand some people fail at it, or out right are a liability but I believe EVERY role has the potential to consistently win games if they are good enough. Supports staying alive to support their team, or making plays other than just healing. Ana sleeping Genji blade, huge anti’s that the team CAN follow up on. Baptaise immortality field, Mercy important resses, Lucio speed boost to help transition the ENTIRE team, Zen orb that helps kill high priority targets, or even the fact he can out right dps himself due to his insane damage potential. Not to mention trans and Beat are life savers, and if they have the skill to farm those quickly they make their team seem impossible to kill.
Even tanks, Rein has shatter which can kill an entire team, d.va bomb can set up plays or even kill the team as a whole, eat ults, does insane damage herself, Sigma is basically a dps with a shield and can also eat ults, and his ult is insanely good, especially with partnered with other ults or abilities. Orisa is the heart of bunker, without her it doesn’t work, and her halts can secure Hog hooks or make any dps’s job a walk in the park if you communicate when you do it with your team. Winston ult can solo important targets (especially healers like Ana, or Mercy) even get huge environmental kills or completely cuck an ult like Shatter or Visor, blade, Reaper ult, even take a Pharah mercy out of the sky for style points.
These are all things off of the top of my head. And typically speaking in general, 9/10 if main heals or main tank dies, the rest of the team crumbles, because those are the main sources of sustain. Those are huge responsibilities. I really don’t think ML7, would ever be stuck in Plat, Diamond, Masters, I’d even say low GM, because he feels limited in carry potential due to the character he plays.
That’s not true at all. A tanks job is to make space, don’t know why you think that’s a meme. Tanks initiate fights. Backcapping, while a valid strategy, isn’t the main one. How do you backcap if your dps is mcree/hanzo? You don’t, you need a tank to press W.
Alternate routes are a godsend. Far too many times i see people insist on going the same way over and over and over again “because its THE choke”. Then of course thats all the enemy team needs to focus on giving an easy setup for defense every time.
Horizon, just walk under the enemy, Volskaya, go around right, Anubis… also go right.
You’re almost never limited to one singular option, even on a hero with 0 mobility. Just learn the map and try to be creative with how you approach things.
vs bastion+orisa+mercy comp on other team never go the long open hallway type route, theres always been a side route in my cases. (a good number of times even where i can just charge and pin him to wall)
It’s the team’s job to make space for each other, flanking and touching point is a part of that responsibility that DPS need to share in order to take pressure off of the choke - it isn’t solely on the tank.
That’s not true in every game, because you don’t always run a flanker dps.
If you are stuck with a one trick DPS playing McCree on Paris first then you’re just screwed, there’s nothing you can do about bad DPS players who don’t understand map affinity and refuse to switch. Maybe you take double shield tanks, see if the other DPS plays Mei or and get the supports to run Lucio/Baptiste, otherwise DPS players who force the team comp around them just need to be reported after the game.
This can happen due to a couple reasons. 1. You’re poking too much before the push leaving your shield with less health 2. you’re pushing too slowly or 3. Your team isn’t putting enough damage pressure to allow you to move forward
Try to work with your team to tell them we need to focus at the same time, switch to heroes who will put more damage on their team or disrupt their backline, get a lucio who will help speed things up, etc.
Or if its really bad, just save up ultimates and make sure that you make good use of your ultimates.
That’s the thing, if you can’t win shield wars, don’t walk infront of enemy as Rein. Go through a flank with team, tp behind enemy team, just take another route.
No map in the game has a bastion spot that cannot be avoided.
People need to start thinking outside of the box they are stuck in, if something doesn’t work 3x + times, try something else…
Worst case…if you apsolutely “must take” the route the enemy holds, use a Mei to wall them so you can get closer.
Just don’t do the same thing over and over again if it doesn’t work.
You make it sound like the dps is the only role that matters when it comes to win conditions or even having advantages in team fights. I can tell you right now, an Rein who has no awareness of where his team is at and more so focused on swinging his hammer can solo handily lose you games due to the amount of ult charge he feeds and the fact your team is basically missing their main anchor.
Nevera, while I agree with you. Again, as I mentioned in a previous post. Sometimes there are paths you must take in order to be able to take those flanks. King’s Row, was the example I made. In which, the first choke sometimes is held so tightly, you are not allowed to even maneuver to the statue, which is usually where you transition to help refill and maintain resources, however, you still can have trouble even if you committed fully to it. Hanamura is also another great example. Or even some maps, where you are forced to take certain paths due to the CC that can get environmental kills.
As I said before, I thought about asking for help. But it’s hard due to the embarrassment I feel, because when you ask someone to help you with your job it almost feels like you’re confessing you’re failing at it. But this is a team game after all, so I, along with my teammates must get use to it.
I mean, it’s definitely frustrating. My top instinct is to preserve my life, but I have to make space. Making space requires that I risk my life.
Often, it’s natural instinct to just want to stand at a choke (it’s a paralyzing feeling, and knowing that the entire team’s success or failure rests on your ability to create space is overwhelming at times), but I’ve slowly learned that it’s my job to press forward and hope that my team follows me. Better to risk that than to just stand there doing nothing. I’ve won around 50% of my games when I decided to risk it and go forward, and I’ve won close to 0% of my games when I just stood there.
???
What would you do on a dps hero when he isnt working?
You swap right?
Why you dont do this with a tank hero?
Play a tank that can get passed the choke. Or when your dps are up to it, play the shield break game.
Yes this probably means your whole team has to change, but if it wasnt working something needs to change.
For tanks, it’s not necessarily an issue of swapping, it’s an issue of adjusting your playstyle It’s more common to ask the dps to swap because there are well over a dozen dps heroes, each with their own niche that they can fill. There’s a lot less tanks in the game, and there’s a lot less variety. Yes, there are certain circumstances where you should obviously swap as a tank, but there also a ton of times as a tank where you need to adjust the way you play that hero without swapping. In fact, I’d say it’s more common that you should stay on your tank and change the way you do things than absolutely swap (not always, but I’d say swapping between tank heroes too many times can be very destructive to the team comp, in large part due to the immense value you get from tank ultimates compared to dps ultimates).