PvE Tier List (Legendary)

General Discussion
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All based on Legendary and important attributes such as limb damage, CC, Ult, etc… Since all enemies are bullet sponges, raw damage is not as import as limb damage which incapacitates enemy.

God Tier: Moira

Moira was only playable during underworld, and most players did not play her properly. Damage orb deals an extreme amount of damage to limbs, right click also deals a lot of limb damage (put crosshair on legs for best results). Her healing is extremely high, and Coal is the best ultimate in PvE. It shreds limbs and can incapacitate grunts or delete jump jets in mere seconds. Her only flaw is no CC, but she is the only hero capable of saving your team if the enemy numbers are too great with coal. Not even the S tier heroes can turn that around.

S tier: Bastion, Lucio

Bastion’s ability to destroy limbs is amazing with sentry and artillery configurations, has CC as well.

Lucio’s speed boost is amazing and helps experienced players destroy body parts even faster. His healing is adequate and has a low CD CC, ult builds quickly also.

A tier: DVA, Winston, Rein, Echo, Torb, Brig.

The three tanks are all exceptional at doing different jobs. Rein can constantly knock elites off the map from anywhere. Dva is great at CC, crowd clearing and destroying limbs. Winston is great at deleting jumpjets and destroying limbs with leap.

Echo would be in B-tier as her limb damage is just above average, but duplication is a very powerful ult in this mode.

Torb is powerful, great ult and breaks legs quite quickly with overload. Turret is underwhelming.

Brig is great and sacrifices Lucio’s speed boost for better sustain. Rally is better than beat in most cases, Brig’s WS makes stalkers a joke.

B tier: Pharah, Sojourn, Cassidy, Hog

Sojourn is great at breaking legs from a distance, her disruptor shot is very powerful and will help you delete jumpjets in particular. Ult is OK, and should be used not when you’re in a pinch, but to prevent from being in a pinch in the first place. Use it to destroy limbs.

Cass is sojourn with worse mobility in exchange for a better ult.

Pharah has CC, great limb damage, but her ult is sadly a casino, a lot of things can go wrong that are out of your control.

Hog might be A tier, I don’t remember how many shots it takes for him to break a grunt’s leg. He’s at least B tier, and can harass stalkers with his hook. An alright pick.

C tier: Mei, Tracer, Genji, Ashe, Bap, Zarya.

Mei is mediocre at destroying legs, but she has pierce, range, wall and a decent ult. Her freezing burst thing is quite useless as well, it seems to just do more raw damage, not more limb damage.

It takes Tracer’s around 2 clips to destroy a leg assuming most shots connect. She has to risk herself for this and other heroes can this job with far less risk. Most grunts have a large armor health pool so her raw damage is gimped which means she farms her ult less quickly. Her ult deals devastating limb damage and acts as a stun on elites. Too bad armor gimps her ability to farm ult. Tracer needs to deal more limb damage + raw damage in exchange for having less ammo, pulse bomb should probably be cheaper as well.

Genji is hot trash, but he has niches depending on how skilled you are. Deflect is great at destroying legs. His shuriken and swift strike deal limb damage that’s on the low side. Raw damage is pathetic. His ults is only good at clearing subs and slicers. A very skilled Genji player can solo artillery though or even distract one for 30 seconds while a few grunts shoot at him.

Ashe has meh limb damage, reload issues, and a mediocre ult. She needs buffs.

Bap is underwhelming, no CC, healing is high but inflexible, window’s value is very volatile. IF is nice utility, but Lucio and Brig have the means to prevent needing the use of IF in the first place. His abilities have long cds and they will probably be used just to keep himself alive.

Zarya is unfortunate, she needs buffs to energy decay and many more for PvE. Outclassed by every playable tank so far.

D tier- Mercy.
She’s the weakest support in PvE. Provides no aid with destroying legs, contributes little raw damage with a nerfed 25% damage boost from the PvP change leaking through. Her Rez is moot because her lack of contribution beyond heal botting and marginal raw damage amplification will lead to you needing to use it anyways. Yes you can beat legendary Liberation or underworld with Mercy… but you didn’t contribute much beyond healing truly. She needs serious changes, starting with a hefty 50% damage boost for PvE that also increases limb damage.

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Alright, as a T500 PvE player

Moira is L tier, other supports are just straight up better by a long margin.

Lucio’s boops is fantastic, it’s actually funny. The damage is also being slept on and it’s really easy to get beat if you click primary fire often.

Bastion is not an S-tier, he was an S-tier in Archives in OW1, he’s more of an A-tier since he’s quite bad out of turret in general.

Brig is lower if you’re not locked into her, she brings no value besides a stun a whip, her healing is only good if people W, which is not a good strat in these legendary formats.

Winston and Rein are above D.va. D.va isn’t great since most other DPS are doing what she does either way.

Torb is God-tier, seriously, Torb has always been the PvE carry hero of all time, you,re either straight up bad at it or doing 5x all the team’s worth in damage.

Echo is S-tier if you simply farm duplicate and duplicate either the tank or the lucio just for boops and double boops at specific spots in some missions.

Pharah is F-tier, Sojourn is 1 above cuz of her E ability, Cassidy is a mob wiper with High noon or a boss killer with it, so a little above. Hog is an okay pick.

Mei is S-tier, she is the only character capable to carrying the Toronto Mission by abusing NPC displacement and making the double-defense much easier. She also provide stalls and survives longer. You gotta play icicle sniping to get real value.

Tracer is only good if you do pulse bomb management right. Genji is fine, blade can save a run at times. He was much better in the Archives doe. Ashe is fine for dynamite clears and Bob to stall. Bap is all about window amplification, plus he has quite decent damage if you,re good at it, lamp can save the run. Zarya’s quite useless.

Mercy is SSSS+ tier, just because of damage boost, heal chain and ressurection, that alone makes legendary runs easier with people who get accidental deaths. But Lucio’s boop are quite the option on the plate.

Also forgor Junkrat, Junkrat is SSSS+ tier in the only Underworld mission he’s in, since RIP-tire was the best damage tool at clearing waves.

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In archives, yeah she was pretty bad. But not in OW2 PvE.

Raw damage isn’t too important when destroying ads body parts is an alternative method of killing them.

Moira’s right click will deal limb damage to whatever bodypart is nearest to the center of your crosshair. Her time to break a leg is similar to dps heroes on right click alone. Damage orb deals high amounts of limb damage in an AOE, it shreds groups of jumpjets.

Her healing prevents situations that would have required a rez/IF anyways. Coal is the best ult in PvE. It takes around a second to break break off a grunt’s leg, and instakills jumpjets with both body parts destroyed. Then an extra second on the grunts will instakill them as well, but it is best to move coal to disable all ads by destroying their legs.

Coal’s extremely high limb damage can help you wipe out artillery’s cannons in a few seconds. An artillery with no cannons will self-destruct after like 15 seconds, so with decent kiting there is no need to waste damage that should be used on other enemies.

Potentially having an Echo duplicate Moira will mean another 2 dmg orbs + 1-2 coals.

That kind of power can deal with absurd engagements where 30+ads randomly appears. Lucio cannot deal with those kind of numbers unless he can boop them all off the map to farm beat over and over again without dying.

Moira’s only flaw is stalkers and hero-bosses like OR-14 and Ana (but they have dumb AI). You can disrupt stalker’s pull without CC only once if you destroy her floating orbs, but they have A LOT of limb HP. But in exchange for that flaw, she gives you very high sustain with an ult that can rapidly maim the toughest waves in PvE.

If there was no ability to break body parts in PvE, then Moira would be Loser tier like in archives. I’ve had lots of success with underworld’s ultimate zone running her even with my teammates whining for a Bap. Window sucks compared to coal, because coal destroys body parts NOW independently, and your teammates don’t have to huddle around a window where IF is the only thing saving you from getting wiped. There is no need to combo ults either with coal unlike Window, other ults can be saved for later.

Bap also has survivability issues and has inflexible healing on mobile heroes. Bap’s cooldown will be used to keep himself alive more often than not. He can’t handle taking chip damage to himself very well.

He was amazing in Archives and still amazing in OW2 PvE. But the turret doesn’t help destroy body parts but just helps you farm ult, it helps inflate his damage numbers, that’s for sure. But his ability to destroy body parts is similar to Bastions, IIRC it takes around 5-6 left clicks for torb to destroy a grunt’s leg. So Torb is very similar to Bastion outside of their transformations as well.

The problem is that Bastion has a CC and Torb does not. Bastion can boop off enemies to farm ult very quickly in rapid succession. Well placed Artillery config’s can wipe ads body parts or 3 on say an artillery’s guns so they can be kitted while they self-destruct.

Torb has a better ult than Bastion and is superior in a lot of situations. But Bastion provides more value than Torb without ults, and Bastion’s ult is powerful when used tactically.

No, she’s not. The union station part isn’t that hard once you play it optimally, so npc exploits aren’t needed or can be considered a viable strat if it gets fixed. For the final wave there’s 4 subjugators in total. The first two go after reggie and the last two will spawn after both are defeated to go after reggie and claire. So make sure you destroy most/all the ads before you kill the last subjugator. When the last two subjugators spawn, you can meet them early and destroy them both ASAP. Then retreat to the tunnels where you can safely pick off the ads as the stalker cannot move beyond her coded boundaries.

Then the hardest part of the mission is done.

Mei sucks at destroying body parts, she takes much longer than Sojourn to destroy a leg. Wall’s utility in stopping a stalker is sadly clunky or only useful if the victim is not too close to the stalker. Wall has defensive uses, but you have to ask yourself if the situation requiring a wall for emergency defenses would have been avoided with another damage hero.

Her ultimate is just above average. It should probably freeze for much longer anyways.

Stalling is not that valuable, especially if her lack of value caused stalling to be necessary. She needs buffs, and ones that are cool. She should have the frost nova talent on her cryo-freeze as a buff. The work is already done and it would help make her more competitive.

Then she would need to her icicles to deal more limb damage, and the “chilled” effect from her left click should deal extra limb damage when meleed or shot with an icicle, maybe give it an aoe effect as well.

Tracer is mediocre, in Archives she was very good. She could solo multiple enforcers even without a pulse bomb with some finesse. She could repeatedly stun a heavy with pulse bomb farming. Her blink made uprising a joke.

Other heroes can do her job much better in OW2. She can’t farm Pulse bomb like she can in archives with grunts having so much armor HP. So it forces you to do pulse bomb management just so she’s viable. She was just best at deleting the elite jumpjet with a pulse bomb and carrying the small battery back in underworld. She needs buffs, the blink-reload talent would be appreciated with more limb damage in exchange for 40 ammo clips. If they aren’t going to tune down armor HP (but increase mob count hopefully!) then she needs more raw damage as well.

She’s the worst support to run. She is not unviable, my first legendary run was beaten with myself playing as her. But she is outclassed by everyone else. She doesn’t contribute to destroying limbs, damage amplification is not very useful against bullet sponges, especially when it is at a pathetic 25%. Heal chain can be substituted by a Moira heal orb… In what world is Moira L tier in OW2 PvE if Mercy is S tier?

Resurrections is very useful in a vacuum, but ask yourself yet again if Mercy’s lack of limb damage caused resurrection to be needed in the first place. Mercy contributes no CC as well. Brig is better than Mercy except for random cheesy deaths like stalker tping behind you and quick meleeing.

That just means that Mercy needs buffs. Something like a 50% damage boost that dramatically increases limb damage dealt would be very useful. That kind of utility will shoot her up to A tier. You aren’t blowing rezzes on situations that your lack of offensive contributions helped create.

Agreed. I hope we get more chances to play him. If I cleaned up my tier list and did it based on roles. Torb, Bastion and Junkrat would be S tier for damage. Echo as well, but only as a caveat if she has really goods ults to duplicate.

But Moira was slept on. TBF, I feel like I was the only one playing her properly. Skilled players had a bias for Bap so they didn’t explore Moira deeply enough. The pub Moira players were right clicking the torso mostly (contributes no limb damage), focused on healing teammates too much with coal (which then dramatically increases the risk of being overwhelmed) and had little mastery over orbs.

Why did I pick Moira? I one-tricked her in PvP. I knew she was underwhelming in archives, and it took me a few runs to realize where Moira’s true value lies. Maybe the devs accidently set her limb damage value too high, if they nerfed that to typical levels, then yeah, she would be back to L tier.

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The focus on breaking limbs is interesting, but makes sense.

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It doesn’t really matter if you break limbs or not unless it’s the bigger units. If anything, it shouldn’t be the main focus since it’s only a gimmick.

It’s a very limited tool, that’s also a gimmick. Picking Moira doesn’t allow you to have some utilities from others. So unless you got a whole team cattered towards limb-breaking, it’s not worth running over Lucio or Mercy.

What she provides, are what DPS provides already, so you’re missing out on support-side benefits.

The only optimal reason you would theoritically run Moira is if you do a comp based on raw damage numbers without people taking damage or them having enough sustain to not use you. The damage in Legendary is too great for Moira heals to matter, you’re better off healbotting on lucio or playing mercy in most situation.

And that’s exactly why you run lucio, boop enemies in the void in specific missions, boop other bosses that threaten the robot in Underworld, boop the big gunner unit (double boop with echo duplicate) where you can push them in the void instead of destroying them.

Every runs except 1 that I had a Moira in underworld has resulted in significant loses that were very avoidable by picking a different support. I completed all the formats with randoms and there’s only 1 run where a Moira run was nearly successful, but it was quite hard since we had an awful person at the game in the team.

Bap has indeed issues, but his ultimate is really well paired with heroes that benefits it. I don’t really care about the skill expression here, but he brings more utility in the format used of these PvE missions than Moira. His damage if done alright, is much more appreciated.

Turret is extra, it’s meant to break 100%, it’s not like Junkenstein events my man. And if it farms you ultimate, that’s the whole point, his ultimate is literally THE ultimate for PvE. He’s a little less mandatory, but he’s like a W condition most of the time if used.

Torb is REALLY good at pumping damage on left clicks based on head destruction (or armor removal). Torb requires skill to get value on his left click doe, if you’re not used to it, you just lose on it. But his damage is so significant, it makes the runs 10x easier. But you need to barely engage in brawl range, torb arround cover and left click crit spam is and always has been the best strat. Torb usually doesn’t need to boop to kill, you kill before they approach.

Bastion’s CC is so gimmicky, it’s very forgettable. Bastion’s ultimate is quite useless in terms of cover compared to Torb’s coverage. Torb’s molten core works really well with boops as well.

Mei is really good, but if you sleep on the carry PvE hero, Torb, I can see why you sleep on Mei. Icicles are like good damage source in general.

Wall allows repositioning in some sections that benefits NOT destryoing certain omnics and instead opt for environmental kills approach. Mei’s primary fire also can disrupt the big gunner unit from doing the spam thing if you spin in circle, letting your team approach much easier. Icicles also have no range falloff, like torb’s, which is great in scenerarios where you do not need to enter the room and shoot/kill off a distance instead of ramming in and risking death. Her chilled effect is useless, just like in PvP.

Mercy has no limit on sustain, so unless your team plays in the middle of the ocean against 50 units, moira’s requirement at keeping the gauge up is awful. Damage amplification is a small gimmick that can be useless with certain heroes. But it’s as gimmicky as breaking limbs. Ressurections are greater than standard ressurection in the modes, it’s much faster and less risky.

Here’s a few things if you wanna watch some stuff, we are big passionate PvE players, granted I don’t do a lot of runs with them anymore since timezone issues.

https://youtu.be/pZq88B7RA14
https://youtu.be/Yi-bcntxobQ
https://youtu.be/Z-chNiz9Vbc

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It is not a gimmick, it is meta. I have beaten Toronto Legendary over 10 times now, a grunt with a broken leg is no longer a threat. Then you can remove the legs off of the next grunt instead of wasting time attacking a harmless bullet sponge.

By the time you have destroyed one grunt from start to finish, I would have incapacitated 2-3 grunts.

That is hardly a gimmick.

It is not, you have just been playing with bad Moiras and have not been playing optimally yourself. Breaking the legs off of grunts first is the optimal tactic in legendary. Moira deals devastating damage to limbs, she doesn’t need utility because she removes the need for utility. The enemies get incapacitated.

If a Moira is not destroying limbs, then she is obviously inferior to supports with utility. It’s a shame underworld is no longer available, I could have shown you what I mean.

Incorrect, raw damage numbers aren’t that important for null sector. The ability to destroy limbs is what matters. An Optimal comp for Moira would have Echo, Bastion/Junkrat and Winston. They could handle pretty much anything that the PvE would throw at them for Null Sector.

I strongly suspect that the Talon side won’t have grunts with destroyable limbs and that they won’t be bullet sponges. Moira will probably be one of the weakest supports against that faction.

That’s just incorrect. Unlike Brig or Lucio, 50+HPS isn’t locked behind a cooldown. No matter how long a fight goes on, she will be able to provide 70 HP/S. She doesn’t have to wait for cooldowns and her resources are very inexpensive. Dmg orb should be used most of the time, but a heal orb should be used if bursts of AOE healing is needed to survive now.

In that hypothetical situation, Lucio would probably only be able to boop off a few enemies before he and his team gets overwhelmed even with beat. Moira would be able to maim like 20 of them which renders them helpless as they slowly crawl towards you.

Against Null Sector, Moira can deal with extreme hypothetical situations that the devs would never throw at you. She’s the only support that can do that.

Moira can achieve better outcomes with just coal, while Window requires a combo ult plus a static los for teammates to take advantage of it. In clutch situations Bap’s team will be brought to critical HP as they chaotically try to delete bullet sponges. If they fail, then Bap’s sustain won’t be good enough.

Moira has a speed buff and 50 hp/s regen buff while in coal. She can take out clusters of jumpjets and incapacitate groups of grunts so you aren’t getting spammed by ads anymore.

You can’t call Coal trash but then say Molten Core is godly. Coal is slightly less offensive than molten core in exchange for very high survivability. Torb is fragile with molten core, so he has to be careful. Both ults achieve similar outcomes. A grunt without legs and just a gun is nearly harmless.

It is a very poor idea to destroy the head first. One, you used your crit damage on armor HP, and two, there’s a bug where grunts with destroyed heads have better accuracy medium-long range.

He can boop off full HP grunts/detonators or even steal boop Rein’s artillery kills for an instant artillery. Artillery as I said can incapacity grunts as well rendering them helpless. It’s inferior to molten core, but has enough utility to be impactful. Bastion provides more value than Torb outside of ult though. He breaks legs faster with his transformation versus Torbs.

I am not sleeping on Torb, he is one of the best DPS heroes in PvE. I’m just being realistic because the optimal way to fight null sector is to destroy limbs, you think it is just a gimmick but it is actually tactical.

Mei is not S tier, she’s underpowered but still viable.

Ok, but her time to destroy a limb is very slow, Torb has a faster ROF and overload allows him to shoot even faster. My tier list is flawed because I am thinking of power in terms of all the roles, but there is role lock except for the mystery heroes modifier. I cannot put Mei in S tier along with Torb, Junkrat or Bastion.

She needs buffs if she wants to be competitive in optimal play, which is overkill for beating legendary anyways. Only hero that has very questionable viability on Legendary is Zarya.

No it is not. They made it even easier with dmg orb granting you heal resources.

I watched over the No death runs. They aren’t bad, but again the tactics they used against the bots was not optimal. If the devs added more ads, they would struggle along with 99.9% of the pop because very few figured out that destroying the limbs has tons of utility.

If your Sojourn pops ult, you will probably only kill 2-3 grunts solo with no help. Maybe you don’t even miss a single headshot. My Sojourn pops ult, I kill no grunts, but I have broke the legs off of 6-10 of them. They will only use their gun on your in melee range (after a long charge animation) once they crawl towards you.

Scoreboard says that you did more than me, but reality is that I have 3x the effectiveness by being tactical.

I have gotten at least one no death run with randoms a month after the PvE released for Toronto. People with the nullifier tag who still queue Legendary Toronto all destroy legs first. We have turned it into a joke. Guarantee you the successful attempts rolling one week ratio is much higher now.

Ironclad legendary is dead now, so I won’t get my no death run there. So they have me beat there permanently as I exclusively only do solo randoms.

I have played each archives mission at least double digit times and Retribution story mode over a 100 times over the years. I have top 500 on the leaderboard for all 3 story mode missions in 2020. Queued with randoms only, how I like it.

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I’ve had a T500 Retribution score until its last edition before I got kicked off the leaderboard, at a time where maxing scores wasn’t viable yet.

I’ve held a T10 and a few others in T500 back then. I have all the achievements from Archives in OW1. Some of our strats are exclusive to front page scores literally (i.e. Ball in Glass Cannon Uprising is viable for T10).

We don’t play tactical, we play logically on what’s making more sense doe. Is killing limbs a more sustainable option over ignoring the gimmick and just straight up doing like in Archives (i.e. damage the head to proceed faster + target priority).

Tactical runs are just, tedious and long, they’re a ‘safe’ bet when you have no stability (i.e. randoms).

The only leaderboards that were complete jank back in Archives was for Uprising, which required timing and killing X amounts of enemies before capping. The others had some linear thought processing that it was pretty much on point between time/kills, then you had the awful Storm Rising which was an easy one to cap max score lol…

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The tactical method actually has a similar TTK or is slightly faster than doing it your way.

Why? Because the critbox breaks as well. So to kill a unit ASAP, the best order is Legs → head. When the grunt loses the legs, it has a very slow movement speed and will only use its gun in short range.

This is especially important on heroes with guns like Tracer. Once the legs are broken you can shoot at its head safely while dealing crit damage to non-armor, giving you a faster TTK and thus more efficient ult charge. A grunt without legs also makes the critbox easier to perfectly hit.

My method: 2 clips into legs which takes around 4 seconds, Grunt no longer shoots at me. Then I can spend around 2-3 more clips (3rd clip is partially used) or around 4-5.X seconds to finish the grunt off by destroying its head last. Since there is far less armor HP at this point, I will mostly deal 5.5 X 2 = 11 dmg per bullet.

Your method as you did not bother to adapt from archives. I will even assume you have an Aimbot to be generous

You put 2 clips with perfect aim into the head which destroys it. Crit damage against armor HP is 5.5 X 2 X 0.7 = 7.7 dmg per bullet. The bot is shooting at you for those 4 seconds. Then you have to put in 3 clips to finish it off, and the bot is again shooting at you or your team for those 6 seconds.

My method kills the grunt faster, and it shoots at me for less time. Attacking the critbox first is only useful against Stalkers, Subjugators (but destroying one of the 4 discs will disrupt it from subjugating Claire) or sometimes Jumpjets.

When it comes to dealing with ads, you don’t do what is logical. What might seem logical from a smaller view can fall apart from a larger pov that sees more objects. In this case the objects are body parts that break given x ammo to destroy it, and the best order to do it in.

Destroying the critbox first is illogical, it provides no disruption, you gimp your crit damage by 30% as you melt through the armor first.

But let’s return to Tracer, here is the most optimal way to help your team out against the grunts: You spend 2 clips destroying the legs… THEN YOU MOVE TO THE NEXT GRUNT AND SHOOT THEIR LEGS OFF! Now instead of spending 8-9 seconds killing a single target, I can use those 9 seconds to stop 2 grunts from shooting at me and my team. We can destroy them later quickly as ads aren’t pressuring us to play too defensively.

If every team member focuses on destroying the legs first, engagements become jokes. 10 seconds in and most of the grunts are incapacitated.

This is why the ability to break limbs matters; therefore, Mei is mediocre, Mercy is the worst support as she contributes nothing to limb damage, Ashe is hot garbage, Bap is outclassed by Moira in ultimate zone, and Lucio is the best support in invasion as he can rapidly speed up the leg busting process.

If you don’t get it at this point with an obvious example of why shooting the critbox first is illogical, then that’s your fault. Unlike in archives, the critbox breaks as well, so your strategy is outdated against null sector.

Lucky for you, the next batch of PvE missions will have 2 of them take place in India and Monte Carlo. Both will have Talon mobs, so just shooting the critbox will be logical as I DOUBT it will have destructible body parts on humans to keep its teen rating.

I wish there was leaderboards, because my zero death Liberation run with 4 NULLIFERS would easily make top double digits. We cruised through it with a godly Genji named Thiefman who soloed Artillery two times, used deflect to break off 1-3 legs in under a friggen second and turned subjugators into sushi with dragonblade. He dodged the stalker’s quick melee one shot by standing on her head and beating her with shurikens. I was Brig and should have been Lucio… But all 4 of us were just having fun as randoms.

Who cares, the modifier challenges were based on expert mode. They all had goo goo ga ga rugrats difficulty.

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Or shoot the head until it blows and simply hit the middle torso because seriously, for like most units, it doesn’t matter.

I had T500 scores in archives and I was a literal silver player, all you have to do is shoot in the general head-level direction of the bots and you get like a hecking ton of damage done. This didn’t change and I’m much better at the game on the PvP side than ever, and I cannot justify doing a run purely on breaking limbs as a priority check when it doesn’t give an advantage at all, unless you were fighting every single unit 1by1 and not as a horde format.

Even if it attacks more and we take more damage briefly, as a deathless run, it doesn’t matter, we’d prob get support ult faster even if anything the way we play.

It disrupts them. The crit damage being alted by the critbox is a justified action. By the time you blow the crit head of most enemies, the armor is gone, which means they,re easy targets, and it doesn’t take a ton of damage to break the head really.

Yea, if you don’t run limb-damage, all of this is reversed besides Lucio. Mei is extremely good, Mercy is fine, Lucio is insane, Moira is complete jank, Ashe is fine altho other picks are much better and Bap is good.

It’s less of a hassle to hit the head and finish the target for most enemies. I still have no justification into running this. If we had 4 people perform Legendary as a limb-format and then as a ‘traditional’ format, then and only then, I could agree to it.

Scoreboards are tricky, rulesets differs. We don’t know for sure what would be counted for points.

Yea, that’s why I got a first page run, since I could prove my points, I know it’s now on the second page since a few folks wanted to be on the first page.

But it’s fine, gonna stop from here.

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You don’t get it. I even shown you the mathematical advantage. Enjoy shooting the head first and getting your crit damage reduced by 30%.

Enjoy getting shot at more, this strategy is best used in horde formats and not 1v1. I just shown you the 1v1 situation with Tracer in a vacuum to drive a point home.

Fine, but the odds of the run being successful goes down, and if they bother making engagements even more difficult with a higher number of mobs, your strategy will perform even worse or be outright unviable.

Yes, but your crit damage was reduced by 30%. That is horrible even if it is to help your allies destroy them faster. They are still shooting at you for the entire time that they are alive. They stop shooting at you except melee ranged if they have no legs.

You are rationalizing your outdated strategy and saying it is optimal when the math says otherwise in theory and in practice.

Fine, but null sector has breakable limbs, we are talking about null sector. Your point is moot. Learn why.

It is not. Enjoy getting shot at more. You say Moira’s healing is not enough for legendary’s damage, but in the same vein promote taking unnecessary damage.

OW2 PvE has breakable limbs for Null Sector, that is not a format. You just didn’t deal with the ads properly and are rationalizing poorly about why your method is somehow superior in the face of logic.

A format would be no ability CC except for ults, not deciding to breaking limbs intelligently or not.

You aren’t fundamentally bad at PvE and neither is the people who did those deathless runs. But they weren’t playing properly and sorry, but randoms a month after it PvE released did their run faster with suboptimal heroes spontaneously in a single try who weren’t taking it seriously.

This was all about ego once demonstrated facts were being denied. You straight out called me trash at PvE when I don’t need a premade to get on a leaderboard or even clear missions. Just having fun with no expectations, playing my absolute best is all that’s necessary. Eventually only the hardcore PvE geeks start queuing, but unfortunately Legendary Liberation is going to die soon. Shame because I wanted to do a non-ult CC run with Zarya, Tracer/Genji, and Bap.

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So we decided to put this idea of shooting legs first vs head first to the test.
The result was practically the same (4-frame difference in ttk at 60fps).
This difference could be due to human error in aiming, although we made sure both tests were as close to perfect as possible.

With that said, different heroes and different scenarios can favor one over the other, but this would probably in most cases favor you shooting the head before other limbs.

Echo, for example, can use the initial headshot damage to get them to ½hp a bit faster, which allows her to finish the target using her focusing beam (our test showed a 39-frame improvement with a missed headshot).
or if they take enough damage from other sources which removes their armor, then you’d probably also want to just aim for the head.

Conclusion: Sure destroying body parts does help with kill speed because of the explosion damage, However, the order you do this doesn’t seem very relevant most of the time.
The few times there’s a difference other than human error, It’s most likely favored you shooting the head.

Edit: After some consideration, I think that it’s actually more than just a few times you encounter Headshots being favored.

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It depends what mode your referring too. The free mode was less about damage and more about mobility. Honestly the whole thing could be cheesed so its really not a good metric to judge heroes on. And the payed version had less to do with who you pick, and more about how you play.

Anyone with a boop did well. Echo had the best game changing ult which could save a run. Mei was trash, much like in the actual game now.

Archives was far better then what we seen. Sad but true.

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This is also true.
Most of the Underworld missions could be cheesed without having to kill a lot of enemies.
Speedruns relied on these techniques a decent amount.

Echo ult has a ton of utility depending on who else is on the team, and her Super fast ult generation rate makes it one of the best imo.

Mei does have utility depending on the mode and the goal, but yeah, some other picks just straight-up outperform her.

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14

Update.
We did actually try out your method for a Liberation speedrun attempt.
On average we lost quite a lot of time every split and ended up a full minute behind our PB (although we did kinda stop playing seriously after getting too far behind to catch up)
I think we timed our kill speed on the first 4 enemies to be about 2 seconds slower than what we usually do. You can imagine once you start adding this together it’ll turn out to be a lot of time lost in the end.

With that said, we did actually learn something new.
Apparently, there’s a place where killing enemies slower actually ends up blocking a spawn wave, meaning we end up having less cleanup to do to proceed.
So thanks to this slower method of killing we actually did improve our time on one section slightly :slight_smile:

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