I agree with this. However, just because someone is a pro, that doesn’t mean every thing they think should be carved into a stone tablet. Pros are people just like everyone else and sometimes they dont have the best ideas either.
They are not always right.
I dont think they are evil and I think they want whats best for the game, as most of us do, and the game should be balanced around high end play, but they aren’t Gods among men. Keep that in mind.
As Sombra would say “We all make mistakes”
Dang, the battletag definitely checks out lol.
This is objectively incorrect, and simply shows short-sightedness on your part. Yes, pro players are much more adaptable than the entire rest of the player base. But when even pro players cannot adapt to a certain team comp or strategy, that’s when metas begin to form, such as the meta we currently have, GOATS. The best and most reliable way to win against GOATS is for you mirror the enemy team comp and also play GOATS.
Just my two-cents. I’m not trying to respond to anything here. Games live and die off of their hard-core fanbase. Not the casuals who will switch when a newer game comes out, but the people that really love the game. This is obviously pros. I’m a Diamond Console player and I would much rather see the game balanced around pro-play than Console where Pharah is stronger. I have a friend who is Gold on Console who would prefer the same thing. Do you know why? Because we love the game. If its going to spread its going to be from a viewership experience whether that’s streamers (who are usually high-GM ex. xQc, Seagull, Jayne, Kehprii, Mendo, and everyone else) or if its OWL/Contenders. It should be balanced around that so that the game can spread.
TL;DR The game should be balanced around the highest tier of play (OWL/Contenders) because that’s where a lot of the hard-core fanbase is, and games live and die off of their hard-core fanbase as they are the ones who actually care and stick around.
Bet he was shortselling and trying to drive up the peak.
I just know that Competitive players that idol pro players makes my enjoyment of OW very miserable at the least.
Thats debatable. At least for a lot of pro’s. Not saying all pro’s by any means, but there are certainly many pro’s and even streamers who only make suggestions that would benefit them, which would ultimately leave the game worse off
That’s where I disagree with you, and most pros.
If you balance exclusively toward the cream de la cream (and even “just” GM is still less than 1% of the playerbase), what end up happening is that you create a high skill barrier that will be scary to newcomers, and end up with diminishing playerbase, which will reflect into diminishing viewers and buyers for their marketing.
Just like most stuff in the world, the correct path is somewhere in between. You need to keep the game balanced for pros, but also fun for casuals: Casuals don’t care for balance unless it’s blatantly unbalanced, and pros only care about the fun factor once balance is in place that they are comfortable picking their personal preferences (creating a team style or signature) because any option have around the same chances of winning.
The Smash Bros community is a perfect example of this kind of balance. Pros love Melee, hate Brawl because they focused too much on “fun”, and Smash4 and Ultimate are having great reviews from all level of players because you look at both sides.
The forums just like to play back seat developer. Players are good at finding problems but they aren’t good at fixing them.
That’s not necessarily true. Their end goal isn’t wanting them only working top level, they want heroes to be viable up there instead of being considered throw picks and I can’t see why people overall wouldn’t want that.
Its almost as if thinking and separting people as either “Good” or “Evil” is a toxic mindset meant to divide people into thinking they are “better” than someone and a mentality that has led to multiple groups of people being discriminated against.
There isn’t anybody who DOESN’T want that. But the problem is that there’s always going to be an “easiest” character. There’s always going to be a character that someone in Bronze can pick and feel like they’re doing something with.
Even in super skill-intensive shooters, there are always the weapons, characters or gear that everyone whines about needing 'no skill" to play and don’t work at top level.
Ngl every single rework has made the hero noticably better in terms of design, and the balancing was an issue but they get it right after a year, generally.
Everyone you just listed withe the exception of orisa, reaper and 76 are gimmicks… That is why they are so hard to balance. When you have concepts that revolve around heroes being able to do one thing and that is all then they will always be unbalanced.(When their gimmick isn’t supported by a meta) This is why I am generally more in favor of generalist heroes. Much easier to balance and keep relative to the game.
As for Orisa, 76, and Reaper. Well they probably need some work. Also it is unfair to say Pros dont say anything about them. Seagull did make a suggestion for reaper, but community hate of pros (forum community) instantly said it was bad because seagull made the suggestion. Why should pros bother with ideas for heroes outside of the meta if the community is just going to make post that slam them for suggesting something without making any real arguments as to why they think it is bad other than a pro made the suggestion.
The replies in this thread are so amazingly dumb.
“Pros will only want to buff things they like and nerf things they don’t.”
Yeah! Exactly. So when you get a consensus it means the average top level player doesn’t think a mechanic or hero or level of power is healthy for the game.
The metas in overwatch are often mirror. So any buff or nerf is going to affect the viability of most teams pretty equally. There’s a few standouts but that’s about it Sure jjonak might want a meta where zen is good. But if it isn’t he plays something different. Every person in pro level is capable of playing multiple heroes and no one will run strategies they don’t think are likely to win.
Idk how to explain this in a way simple enough for many of the people in this forum to understand… I guess I’d say a consensus among pros transcends the personal favourites or hated heroes of each individual pro. The top 100 players or whatever (not by leaderboard but in the sense that they compete in T1 scene) will run whatever they have to. They’ll have a variety of hero preferences just like any group. So even if each individual is biased a consensus that a particular mechanic is bad for the game or a certain hero is broken is unlikely to be biased by their own desire to win. It’s simply the reflected experience of the average player playing the peak of Overwatch.
This doesn’t mean that opinion is necessarily right. But thinking the common opinions among pros are somehow biased by what they think will let them succeed makes no sense. If anything it’ll be biased towards what they think makes the game fun and interesting to play since that’s what they have to do all day
This is a pretty stupid comment. Why should they be the last to complain again? You are acting like you can only either complain or adapt. Why can’t they do both again? Most of the time, pros do adapt, but that doesn’t mean that it’s healthy for the game. Also the job point. I’m sorry, but that’s pretty stupid. It is PRECISELY because it is their jobs that they should complain. Wouldn’t you want your job to be as good as possible? If the rest of the playerbase only plays to have fun, then that just means that they should complain less because its just a hobby and not something that will affect them in the long run. You somehow manage to disprove your own point in the same comment, how did you manage that?
I don’t see why people feel the need to treat bronze or lower players like they’re incapable of learning harder heroes. Every hero should have some form of learning curve, no hero should exist that can get people out of lower tiers by simply holding w+m1.
(All of those were things mostly triggered by pros complaints iirc)
Tell that to hanzo, who is now a broken all range tank buster hyper mobile assassin
Tell that to bastion, that despite the rework beeing a good idea, it took MONTHS if not YEARS to give the hero Some buffs and its not even enough
Tell that to roadhog who was Completly useless for months after the rework
Tell that to sym and torb whom reworks left them statistically worse when it comes to pickrate for sym; and made them completly reliant on a single ability to do everything, for torb and sym to a lesser degree, also made sym so team reliabt only OWL players get the best out of them and made torb a squishy clunky mess due to the loss of the extra 75 armor permanently and turret’s placement rules
Lucio was also completly UP after his rework
And mercy was so unbeliveably broken that she reached 100% pickrate and made a whole meta,
Or reaper, whos rework did nothing, because the devs refuse to fix whats actually wrong with him
But yes “reworks improved the heroes”
actually they are alot of the unneeded nerfs and buffs to certain heroes are because of these “pros” and the team only listens to them