If LW is weak on the damage side, then he needs to overcompensate on the team survival side.
When LW is paired with Mercy, there’s not enough team damage to overcome the opponent.
LW needs to buffed to the point he is in the meta (at least for select maps).
Because he really dishes out the damage /s
You’re not factoring in how easy his healing is tho. It’s almost as good as Mercy whilst at the save time being almost as easy, since he has auto aim.
Meanwhile, Ana players have an average accuracy of 50-60%, halving her effective heals so that she does less than LW. Overbuff confirms this when u compare their heals per 10 min
It’s a Get Out Of Jail Free card for LW in fights. That’s the opposite of niche.
It also lifts up turrets, make them harder to hit (Torb, Bob)
Do you even play Lifeweaver? Cause this is starting to sound like you have no experience.
Pull doesn’t just save people, it wasted important enemy cooldowns. No assasination attempts from bio nade, mag grenade or Rein pin for example. It also negates ultimates, including some if the most powerful in the game, like Grav and Earthshatter. That’s denying huge value to the enemy and improving the ult economy.
You can also use it offensively, such as pulling allies thru chokes, moving BOB or other heroes during ultimate around for maximum lethality.
As a LW I will have orbs constantly charging during teamfights. It’s not a case of “see ally in danger → charge orb” it’s see ally in danger, throw orb. Tho if I’m really that scared for them I’ll just pull them.
Big heals, big utility, low damage. Mercy is the only hero who fits that description
Absolutely not. If you’re not weaving in a couple kunais whilst your heal reloads you’re a bad Kiriko.
Great Kirikos flank as well; Lifeweaver& Mercy could never
I won’t attack unless there’s little healing to do. Then I will spam thorns down a long sightline until the team starts to take significant damage again.
I think one of the side things people miss is.
Generally a master of only one, has to do things better than a generalist who can do two things at the same time (ex: bap: 110-120 dps + 50-70 aoe healing, simultaneously).
Or Ana tossing a healing nade and either completely denying enemy heals, while being able to sleep and ping/ nade combo sleeping targets for 150-200 dmg (if timed completely right).
While also being able to heal 75/0.8s for 90 hps or heal nade while having the potential to toss her nade into a team fight, anti healing the ENEMY tank 100% while also boosting heals 50% for her own tank and healing for up to 140 hp/s over 3.5s on them.
While lifeweaver has been able to match numbers after the ult buff. People have been pointing out he does 20% less healing than ana in often twice the time (65/1.3-1.4s = 45-50 hp/s, vs 75/0.8 = 90 hp/s OR 90 dps. OR 135 hp/s while healboosted)
Sure, ana can miss and doesn’t lock on, but Petal doesn’t lead to kills nearly as often as sleep dart and one could argue that even though pull is useful alone. It arguably has about as much (or less) fight impact as just tossing a suzu midfight vs a nade midfight.
Suzu even brief 0.7s-1s(?) of invincibility might be only enough for kiriko to heal 100 dmg, but it might also be enough for dps to do 100-200 dmg as well.
Pull leaves a target out of fight, out of objective, and at the same hp while being unable to shoot. They might be ‘saved’ from being a ‘suicide rein/tank’.
But the same situation where a LW was “saving rein” from a reinana 2v2 could also just have been one where ReinAna Outhealed and killed ReinWeaver’s save, while a LucioRein might also result in just rein charging, killing the weaver or firestriking his petal, and then the team killing the tank or forcing a pull → Objective lost.
If lw did like Kiriko v1 levels of healing, like 90 hp/s (65 hp/0.7s OR 120 hp/1.3s). He probably could be picked for healing alone like kiriko v1 was.
Lets be honest, kiriko v1 actually did some insane healing numbers with unaimable, infinite 100 hp/s near levels of NON DEPLETING healing. She still does like 72 hp/s (130 hp/ [1s cast / 1.8s recharged]).
Not to mention while her projectile is actually kinda low at 70 bodyshot dps, she can infamously headshot for potential surprise 120 dmg kills on any targets missing just a little hp.
Even kiriko v2 notices that even though she’s a 72 hp/s character who can teleport to targets on 6s cd, and grant 1s(?) of invincibility on a 14s cd, she still kinda struggles with lower rank viability until GM anas take over. And even then, she’s usually picked as a pick to COUNTER ana’s 10s cd nade with her 14s suzu.
She’s not always often picked alone without a ana to counter. But her healing is almost 2x better than LW while having a useful ult that can be comboed with nano/visors/shatters and basically acts as a +50% dmg boost with faster fire speeds.
So why would anything make frame perfect 50 hp/s lifeweaver a better pick than 72 hp kiriko if kiriko can also teleport out of fights on a 6s cd while LW is stuck on his own petal?
Why would you pick such a long cd for petal when kiriko can ALREADY wall climb to high ground vs a limited one way one use predictable cd?
What value does LW being in the middle of nowhere every 12s grant that kiriko climbing to the middle of nowhere (and deciding it’s not useful, even on 0 cd) give?
The simple answer is that people overestimate petal’s utility for landing kills, changing teamfights, or even doing anything useful than evasion for lw on a 12sish cd vs a 6s kiriko tp.
People think it MUST be good because it’s ALL HE HAS… People also think that a character even T500s have notoriously given up on climbing series after series with numerous t500 gms peaking at plat “aren’t good enough at him yet”… If 20 t500s aren’t “Good enough with lw yet”. who is?
I think it’s just the writing on the wall. It’s just a video game and as Blizz patchnotes have shown us. They can be 1 patchnotes away from meh 48.5% wr J queen, to oh JQ is okay now. To OMG who buffed JQ 4 times when she was 50% wr levels.
For all we know, the 65 hp/1.3-1.4s lw of today could be replaced with a 120 hp/1.3s LW of tommarow, pushing out 90 hp/s vs 40-50 hp/s, while offering great utility and kiriko v1 levels of raw healing power and death negation like suzu v1.
One supports thats are built to dps like zen brig ana bap moira are ment to they arnt making uo for bad dps that the worst take on support role i have heard ever they can od damage and its part of their kit you dont just not do damage because you have good dps. On top mercys usaly movement their way to a rez and the blaster is slower to pull out then weavers needles and have a lower dps.
Agreed we need more main supports not flex support i like weaver even tho hes a little weak i dont want them to just pump his damage or healing i would rather see his utility go up
I mean… what even does a more utility lw look like? More pulls cd and more “LW GAVE ME MORE NAUSEA” style posts?
Ex: Should his pull heal or maybe restore like 200-300 hp?
o Should his flower be able to be raised and lowered with interact for allies to make it more practical and make grouping with allies easier?
o Should his petal offer a small passive 20 hp/s to allies and passive 20 dps/s to enemies standing on top of it to make the utility more valuable to protect allies from trickle dmg. While still offering deadly but maybe fun opportunities for enemies, but at a cost of life.
Vs being a poor 43% wr utility support that can just as often help KILL their own team or assist a ally just as much as their own?
o Should LW do better healing, at least to like kiriko v2 levels (ex: 72 hp/s. Or 65/0.9s vs 65/1.3s-1.4.)
o Should petal have a better cd or allow multiple to be used at once, potentially allowing LW to offer his team more petal based utility or 2-3 charges for each?
And this is why he’s trash
Not to speak for him but this is clearly rank dependent.
Whenever I play QP, I see low rank Mercy’s come after me when they Valk. If it’s a duel, they lose 100% of the time. I’m sure they are used to winning duels against players of their rank.
In GM, Mercy players just don’t try this or disengage after I hit the first shot. They really only attack when it’s not a “duel” and multiple people are shooting at me, where damage boost would have killed me anyway.
I disagree this means you mastered her though. It just means you play at a GM level.
Firstly, he can shoot his healing around barriers.
Secondly, your “fact” turns to theory when you assume his low healing leads to low healing in practice.
The actual fact is that he is the highest or one of the highest healing supports at every rank. That is in practice.
Why? Because he only heals as his damage is unreliable with lead and such a large spread and his healing can’t actually miss the target while many other support either have much shorter range or can miss.
You can make an argument for impactful burst healing not being there but there is not comparison between his healing and damage output and I can’t see him being damage oriented in any way.
Cant get worse than a genji main constantly crying for genji buffs.
Lol i main support so sorry not sorry i think weak heros need buffs but no we dint need more hps creep especially on a main support that doesnt need mkre healing when he does the most healing per 10 of most support while i di think his utility needs buffs. So again sorry you just want dps heros in the support role or so much hps that it kills other roles like it slowly is already
It’s true, but like a Moira attacks me, I land the half of the clip on her but she survives even with many headhsots. Supports have to have something else xcept healing.
Not true, Lifeweaver and Mercy are not in the same boat. Mercy contributes to her team’s damage immensely. Lifeweaver is the only support who does not. And that’s why he’s bad. Until he can contribute to the damage he will not be viable.
Not about damage number it’s about how he is forced/designed to duel vs escape and it’s quicker to kill a low target than heal a low target.
Kirko is the same but is faster and heals more: LW is worse.
Brig is the same but is faster and heals more and ignores barriers and let’s her use her kit while heal : Big loss for LW
Zen is the same but can’t be blocked barriers and while it heals less his damage and discord that you can use while you heal is 100x more useful.
I would argue his heal utility wise because of the low numbers, locking out his kit, 1 sec charge makes it the worse heal in the game.
Ana heals about the same as LW and LW has an ult that heals a ton meaning on average Ana heals more than LW vs primary.
Next if you are competing vs a Ana they have the ability to out heal you with skill.
All your doing here is showing your inability to use data as you don’t know how factor in his ult. I mean the acc numbers reflect her dpsing as well which means it’s actually higher for healing due to larger hit boxes.
Delays a fight but keep LW in a fight so it’s better to use to kill someone than escape.
I’ll point out my point was it was too niche and one of you main uses you highlighted was a synergy with one hero in there ult. I’ll ask do you know what niche means?
You still have to win the fight after these facts.
The closest ability to it is I’d say suzu… Suzu save and enables people to continue what they are doing so it can enable other to get kills.
I’m ok with grip but as things go it doesn’t enable like lamp,anti,suzu and the rest of his kit sux.
Ignore everything else then. Mercy is designed to escape he isn’t.
Still heal more and faster than LW and has a better ult.
Also, i bet you’d could get to masters playing this way.
INT. WATCHPOINT: GIBRALTAR - MEDICAL BAY - DAY
The MEDICAL BAY is a well-equipped facility bustling with activity. Medical equipment lines the walls, and injured Overwatch agents rest on the beds, their injuries tended to by the diligent healer, MERCY.
Mercy, clad in her signature Valkyrie suit, moves gracefully between the patients, her wings gently fluttering behind her. She meticulously tends to wounds, applying healing beams and administering medication. Her soft voice brings reassurance to those under her care.
TRACER, the time-jumping adventurer, leans against the doorway, watching Mercy with a hint of curiosity on her face. She pushes off the frame and approaches Mercy.
TRACER
(leaning casually)
Hey, doc, can I ask you something?
Mercy glances up, her ocean-blue eyes meeting Tracer’s gaze, and she smiles warmly.
MERCY
Of course, Tracer. What’s on your mind?
TRACER
(slightly hesitant)
Well, it’s just… Isn’t it a bit ironic that you’re this amazing healer, always devoted to helping others, but most people think your damage boost is more useful?
Mercy pauses for a moment, her expression thoughtful. She sets aside her healing staff and walks over to a nearby console, gesturing for Tracer to follow. They stand in front of a holographic display showcasing various Overwatch heroes in action.
MERCY
(sincerely)
I can understand why it may seem ironic to some, Tracer. After all, my primary role is to heal and safeguard my teammates. But Overwatch is a dynamic and ever-evolving organization, and sometimes we have to adapt to new challenges.
She points to the hologram, which depicts Mercy damage-boosting a Soldier: 76, empowering his shots to take down an enemy quickly.
MERCY
(fondly)
My damage boost is more than just amplifying firepower. It’s about enabling my teammates to reach their full potential, to make a difference on the battlefield. By supporting their offensive capabilities, I can turn the tide of a fight and ensure victory.
Tracer leans in closer, her eyes fixed on the holographic display.
TRACER
(slightly awestruck)
Yeah, I get it now. It’s not just about the healing, but about helping the team in whatever way you can. Like how you always know the best time to boost someone’s damage.
Mercy smiles warmly, her wings gently rustling as she turns her attention back to the patients in the medical bay.
MERCY
(softly)
Exactly, Tracer. Being a healer means more than just mending wounds. It means understanding the needs of those around us, adapting our abilities, and doing whatever it takes to make a difference. Healing or damage boosting, it’s all about ensuring the well-being and success of our team.
Tracer nods, a newfound appreciation shining in her eyes. She gives Mercy a quick pat on the shoulder before dashing off, energized by their conversation.
TRACER
(grinning)
Thanks, Mercy! Keep up the amazing work, healer or damage booster, you’re doing great!
As Tracer disappears around the corner, Mercy resumes her duties with renewed determination, her healing staff radiating a soft golden light. For her, it’s not about the label; it’s about the impact she can make in the lives of those who rely on her.
FADE OUT.
I love Lifeweaver, the problem is that he’s just bad…
He needs some serious buffs…
He doesn’t need that.
He has plenty of utility. He has low healing because if he didn’t, he would spend the game doing nothing.
He’s also the most survivable hero, according to the devs and that’s entirely due to the fact he can’t engage the enemy in any meaningful way, his flower is all he needs to get out of reach of an enemy.
Also, if you think, those are the things he needs buffed, you just don’t know how to play support, I’m sorry.
He’s not like Mercy. He’s not even close to being like Mercy, he’s a healbot. You can healbot on any hero. But on LW you can only healbot and healbots don’t have a positive winrate.
You don’t have to dps but sometimes you need the range for utility like taking care of turrets.
His wide spread on the thorns makes this incredibly less effective at a distance; I’d prefer to see his spread removed, but make his projectile speed even slower to keep things in line with a less-dps design.
Hear me out though…
Petal platform should damage enemies. If they step on it or he throws it at their feet, thorns stick up from it and they take continuous damage until they get off. Profit!
I honestly like him as he is, but just wish he more ammunition in his Thorns cause it feels like he runs out far too quickly. Keep the low damage, but having him reload it so often feels bad.
Sometimes he just needs to fire his needles cause there’s no healing necessary but it sucks when you do.
Also, give him an audible ping for his Platform.
Life Weaver is a fine concept but terribly executed. Specifically Life Grip. I don’t think I’ve ever had a support on my own team that incentivises me to break LOS with my own supports and feed. So you know. If you pick Life Weaver, fully prepare for me to LOS you the entire game because I want to make my own decisions, not be your puppet.
Ah but with Life Grip you can. Because hey I guess your teammates are now your puppets. Fantastic.
I approve of consented life grip.
Additionally, those other comps don’t take away my ability to make my own decisions.
Shorter cool down but now requires consent would be lovely in my opinion.