PSA: How To Deal With Fallacious Arguments About Sym's Rework

I don’t think you quite understand the use of that word… please research both it and the word realism. Thank you.

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There are… heck go check out the Sym subreddit. Every other day another is reaching masters. And there are quite a few grand masters players.

As for the Winrate- trolls pick her to troll. Of course that brings it down.

The reality is, you have a defeatist attitude about something you haven’t even tried for yourself, by your own admission. You could try to say otherwise but then you’d be contradicting yourself.


Mostly the latter to an extent. Symmetra just isn’t good on all maps/modes/situations. If we’re on a defense 2CP or mixed map then she’s great. Defense on cart? Mediocre at best in the best of hands. Defense on KoTH? Great if and only if the point gets totally locked down, otherwise she is terrible. Attack on most all modes, mediocre to terrible.

So if you have a person that can only play symmetra on your team, some instances they will work well or even be an asset; but most of the time they will be a liability no matter how good they are.

Looks like you didn’t want to Google. Here:

Defeatist: a person who expects or is excessively ready to accept failure.

Realist: a person who accepts a situation as it is and is prepared to deal with it accordingly.

As I am actively trying to bring attention to an issue and fight for accessible games, rather than give up and stop gaming, I am not a defeatist. I am accepting the situation that the new rework will cause and taking measure to call out the massive backward step the devs are making.


That’s odd, attack and defend escorts are my forte. And if you plan things out before randomly diving in, you can easily capture a control point.

Let me finish that for you:

synonyms: pessimist, fatalist, cynic, prophet of doom, doomster; misery, killjoy, worrier;
informal quitter, wet blanket, worrywart

As an adjective:
demonstrating expectation or acceptance of failure.
“we have a duty not to be so defeatist”
synonyms: pessimistic, fatalistic, negative, cynical, despondent, despairing, hopeless, bleak, gloomy
“a defeatist outlook”

I already googled it, thanks. It doesn’t sound like you’re prepared to deal with it. Threads like this (and the one you created yourself not too long ago) are designed to cry about something you have not seen for yourself before you’ve even tried. You think it’s a backwards step and you don’t even know.

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I also find success with her on those maps but anecdotal evidence isn’t acceptable when her kit and data suggests she is not good in most of those situations.


Then that’s just bad game design.

You can’t just buff her current kit and expect her to be viable. For example, how would that fix the problem of what slot should she be used in?

First, a synonym does not always share an exact meaning, they often share similar meanings, but those nuances are important, as they change the meaning. (Think back to English class, where your teachers remind you to not just replace words randomly from a thesaurus.) Of those listed, quitter is the closest to the meaning. And as I have already pointed out, I’m fighting tooth and nail rather the giving in.

You could instead say I am a slightly pessimistic realist, at a stretch if you want. But not a defeatist.

Now, can we please get back to the discussion at hand ( i.e. accessibility)? Or would you rather continue trying to incorrectly attack someone’s mindset?

Here’s an idea: ignore the slots. They are only there to help new players get a general feel for what the huge roster does over the course of a 30 second hero select screen. Once you know the characters, it’s not overly useful.

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I’m talking about using her in the support slot or DPS slot in a team, not the hero select screen.

No, you’re being called out for assuming what is or isn’t as easy to use for someone else. You cannot know what is easier for someone better then they do. No debate.

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I have a dozen of complaints about the idea of “slots”, but the tl;dr version is that hero and map synergy is more important than relying in the “slot” terms. Especially because they were created with MMO jargon, and don’t really fit Overwatch.

Please, let me know if you want to actually read the whole rant. I have a tendency to go on for too long when I’m complaining about 2-2-2. Otherwise, I don’t think Symmetra fit in any slot, neither do Sombra, Mei, Torbjorn, Zenyatta or Zarya.

Ah, my apologies, I misinterpreted. Well that’s even easier. What slot she falls in depends on her playstyle at any given time. Those using her for dps play more aggressively, while those playing her to support have back and play more supportively. And some minor kit adjustments can increase her viability in both slots. That’s the great thing about her, she is one accessible hero that can adapt to multiple areas.

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Zenyatta and Zarya have an actual place in a team comp. Torb, Sombra, and Mei are underpowered. What point are you trying to make?

Good thread! Hopefully the dev’s will take this into account, since accessibility is so often treated as an afterthought.

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they sure do ignore them when someone presences the horror of the hanzo widow genji instalock

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My point is that hybrid heroes fit multiple slots, and the “actual” slot they use is dependent on the rest of their team comp, and how they are performing in regard to their team.

Zenyatta can be a support if he focus on damage just enough to get Trans, and then play more cautiously; or as a DPS if they are being possessed by JJonak spirit and start sniping people out.

Zarya can be a tank if he relies on bodyblocking for her teammates and bubbling them up. She can be a DPS if she prioritizes keeping a high charge and melting people with her laser.

Symmetra can be a DPS if she plays in the front line threatening people with her beam range if they push, and throwing orbs aggresively. Or she can play support by standing on the backline, protecting her ult, and warding the zone her team is holding.

Good hybrid play jumps from one style to another seamlessly, and you probably are not even noticing you are doing that when playing them. And those heroes are a problem when you talk specifically about “party slots”, for a bunch of reasons that one day I swear I’ll lay out in a thread so I can just quote myself instead of re-typing it every time people talk about slots.

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Sym wasn’t even intended to be played by disabled people. She should feel good as any other hero without having a small group of people claiming she should stay the same.

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