Tempo ressing is not a fixed number of resses. It is just any res pulled off that continues the tempo of the fight. (I think, I’m not sure)
And in pro play it was rezzing your Pharah (1) and in Silver it was rezzing your team after hiding (5).
Thus the problem.
1:1?
No problem.
Thus why I support the rework, as ridiculous and unnecessarily painful as it’s been, while also saying I don’t think a return to mass rez is healthy for the game as a whole.
Cuz I gotta be considerate of all you fools, not just a select few.
You can’t ignore it simply because it’s complex. You can’t just simplify it. That’s just not how it works. 5 is not always better than 1, because the number of people rezed does not determine the value of the rez.
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I just said it was complex. I agree with you. I’m not talking about that really though so Iunno.
That is definitely not tempo rezzing. All you’d be doing is restarting the fight rather than continuing the tempo of the fight. Pretty sure 5 man resses can’t be tempo rezzes unless they are executed exactly right after the team all dies.
I know it’s not tempo rezzing. That example was to just demonstrate how different the experiences of people playing this game can be and that everyone needs to be considered.
On the contrary, everyone doesn’t need to considered simply because, in the population that is everyone, the majority of them are in low tiers meaning they aren’t good at game. Blizzard should never take into consideration everyone if most of them can’t play the game well.
Cool. So you encourage me to consider context, because apparently it’s SOOOO IMPORTANT when it comes to the 1:1-5 vs 1:1, and then you just demonstrate how you dismiss SO MUCH OF THE CONTEXT outright?
Yeah that’s not compelling to me my friend.
I have no reason to give your position any more legitimacy than someone that posts some Mercy hate thread in sPoNgEbOb MeMe FoRmAt.
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This is just common sense though… No sane developer will ever balance whilst taking low tiers into consideration.
I’ve actually never seen spongebob. It’s just the way I like to quote stuff that imo, is dumb…
Common sense is a lie. Abandon that faith. There is no such thing. We’re appreciating context and experience right? How things play out in the real? Common sense is a myth then. What is normal for one, is unthought of for another. This entire line of thought just evaporates.
Yeah I’ve never watched spongebob either. Just how culture goes yo.
I, for one, don’t appreciate context that doesn’t align with common sense 
I’m a weird duck. I consider the low tier context an anomaly…
Everyone is being considered. That’s a bad strategy that is easily countered. If your team fails to counter it, then that’s their fault, not the game’s or the hero’s.
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More power to you. Given the circumstance and considerations, that may be the most admirable approach. Or it could be foolish and life will beat you into submission one way another.
Welcome to the game.
There’s nothing unique to this argument. If their team fails to counter my GM Widow head clicks on my bronze smurf that’s just on them.
The saying goes, an underpowered hero ruins the game for those that play them, an overpowered hero ruins the game for everyone. Or something to that effect.
I have to appreciate everyone and in mind of that I think 1:1 is far superior to 1:1-5 when it comes to rez in this game.
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I have the mindset of Connor from Detroit. I don’t really care about beatings because I’m a robot with an A.I brain.
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It gives teams a second chance to recover after a blowout. Either team could potentially have access to that second chance if they wanted it. There’s a reason for “everyone”. And contrary to popular belief, it was not a requirement to have a Mercy on your team if the enemy team had one - because I know that’s typically the next argument people make against her. Zen/Lucio or Lucio/Ana could easily outperform a team with a Mercy. Especially if that Ana could land her sleeps. Hell, even a Sombra could make the enemy Mercy largely irrelevant once she was released, if she was good enough.
Back then, an ult-combo was not the be-all end-all of securing a point or winning/losing a match. I’m sure every single person who’s played this game has had at least one instance where one singular mistake led to a loss where they had otherwise been dominating the entire match, or vice versa - where they had been absolutely getting rolled by the enemy team but managed one lucky combo that allowed them to win. Mass Rez offered a way for the superior team to continue to earn that win even if a lesser team happened to capitalize on a single mistake or happenstance, just as it allowed an underdog team to have a fighting chance of turning the tides.
That’s one of the reasons why many people loved having Mercy on their own team - and even why they would yell at Mercy’s to hide, once that became a thing. Because they wanted to have that second wind that Mass Rez offered. It added a dynamic in which not only could a superior team could come back from one trivial misstep, but also where even the underdog could pull together in the last moment and overcome what seemed to be a hopeless situation.
Were there problems with Mass Rez that needed to be addressed? Of course there were. I haven’t seen a single post - personally, anyways - that has argued that Mass Rez was absolutely perfect and could not have used tweaking to balance it properly. But was it objectively unhealthy for the game, just because it offered the potential to resurrect multiple allies? No, and the history of Mass Rez within the first 3-ish seasons proves that.
Mass rez had never been considered fundamentally broken until the invulnerability patch removed a great amount of the counterplay available to those playing against her. She was buffed numerous times prior for the sole fact that her rez did not make her a must pick or OP, despite its design. That alone should say something about the fact that it wasn’t broken by design of just having resurrections as a game mechanic period, but that the removal of counterplay is what caused the frustration to mount that led to her rework.
And yes, I understand that arguing with context leads to so many if/then situations that it’s impossible to argue them objectively. But given that you can’t measure Mass Rez’s objective strength or weaknesses, it’s impossible to argue about it without considering the context, at least a little.
Also, I do have to say that I really do disagree with this prevailing idea that you can’t compare a DPS’s kills to a Mercy’s resurrect because the DPS is skilled and the Mercy somehow isn’t. Yes, Mercy’s resurrect was instantaneous, but she first had to earn it, and then she had to stay alive long enough to actually use it. Mercy did have to earn Resurrect through healing, damage boosting, or dealing damage - all while being the #1 priority target on a battlefield. It’s very different from the way it is now where people practically ignore you until you attempt to rez. Mercy’s back then were hunted viciously as the sole focus of enemy flankers and oftentimes the enemy DPS would go out of their way to solo ult them just to make sure they died - at least in higher ranked play, which is why she didn’t see a lot of use at Diamond+, because the skill in playing Mercy as you rose in the ranks became less about just how many rezzes she could pull off, but how well she could use her mobility to stay alive under heavy focus from an enemy team that actually knew how to exploit her weaknesses.
If it takes skill to earn a DPS player a kill or use their ult, why does it not also follow that it also takes skill to avoid being killed by that same DPS player as one of the more defenseless characters in the roster whose main “defense” is just her mobility, while also managing your team’s health, dodging ultimates, and pulling off resurrects when the opportunity arises? Mercy’s skill may not have required the same factors that applies to a DPS hero, but that didn’t mean that the use of resurrect required no skill at all.
It’s one of the reasons why Mercy’s skill ceiling has dropped with the rework - Valk offers her an easy escape at any time its up, her added slingshot/bunnyhop increases her already very good mobility, and she no longer has an ultimate that is strong enough to warrant the enemy team making her as much of a priority target as before.
You are right in that you can’t really compare a kill to a resurrection, but it’s not because one requires skill and the other doesn’t.
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Mercy will never get resurrect back as an ult, that being said, there are ways they could rework res to make it more involved, and less hide and seek, one possible option would be to remove the cd, and simply give her a way to earn it (think a torb scrap system) or possibly something based around how much she has healed, kinda like a second, less powerful ult
Except that’s an advantage presented outside of game mechanics gained through abusing systems. It’s not the same as a team failing to counter something as it’s normally presented.
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That’s why console life was so overwhelmingly dominated by Mercy, and also Pharah. Never played it myself, but I know people that do. This all ties into how successful given certain considerations a hide and rez approach was. I can construct a lot of scenarios, that could realistically happen, that’d make hide and rez appear OP af. I’m sure you can construct some that would give the complete opposite impressions. That’s how it goes, and it depends on things like what tier, where and when the fights taking place, the map, etc, etc, etc.
Back then people died to Dva bombs left and right, Dva mains included. Lot of stuff has changed. Arguing the team that makes good use of mass rez is t he superior team is pretty presumptuous. How good any given team is is completely relative to their tier, how many people in their team, how familiar they are with each other, etc, etc. Circumstances and considerations.
A superior team wouldn’t make a misstep. Or is that a context we’re not going to? I’m really confused where we’re drawing lines and what matters and what doesn’t…
Depends on your definition of broken. Before the invulnerability it was suicide and rez. Some people would, and did, argue that was broken.
I said nothing about the skill involved. The mechanic is entirely different. A kill operates on an enemy, a rez operates on a team mate. That alone makes it fundamentally different.
Skill is not involved in this dicussion. Neither is a lot of these hypothetical scenarios I see many of you bringing up.
1:1 vs 1:1-5.
Give me reason that doesn’t involve “I like it better” as to why 1:1-5 would be better than 1:1.
That is the goal.
[Citation Required]
Indeed:
EeveeA suggested this but Geoff Goodman already denied the possibility.