Please buff supports

General Discussion
1

I know it’s not on the forefront of everyone’s mind but this Genji buff is really bad for Zen.

He can now cancel his deflect after baiting Zenyatta’s secondary fire, in addition to a noticeable damage buff and spread reduction.

I’m not necessarily arguing Zenyatta should be winning the duel against Genji but I think we should lower the cost of Transcendence.
Because Genji still has a lot of value in his blade, there’s still a healthy ‘I counter you, but you also counter me!’ rotation going on if you know what I mean…

Like Zen may be terrible to run against Genji, but his ultimate hard shuts down Genji’s blade, making Zenyatta valuable instead of hard countered.

Additionally, if Genji himself proves problematic, instead of nerfing him, we could lower the cost of beat since sound barrier’s cost is really high.

Lúcio

Sound barrier

  • Cost reduced by 10% now 2650

Zenyatta

Transcendence

  • Cost reduced by 13% now 2000

This offers counter-play for Genji instead of out right negating positives from his buffs in addition to giving more value to running off supports instead of heal stacking with main supports.

Thoughts? :point_right:t5::point_left:t5:

5 Likes
2

As a Lucio main myself, off support ultimates can already charge extremely fast, and they are too strong to have up every team fight.

Furthermore, Genji’s only threat right now is the 6 seconds of nanoblade when the Ana on his team boosts him. I know he’s getting substantial buffs, but we don’t how much this will actually impact his viability on ladder, so we shouldn’t be tripping over ourselves trying to nerf him yet.

2 Likes
3

That was the partial goal here

I didn’t want to nerf genji, I wanted to offer more viable counter play especially since the “counters” are nearly countered by him equally.

Unfortunately, there are no winners here if these buffs go through. Genji either eats the backline infuriating supports or he’ll get nerfs to put him right back where he started.

1 Like
4

I think this’ll just lead to more power creep.
Of course I’d LOVE to have support buffs
(or some choice nerfs not go through)
I think it’s just be better to nerf the powercrept dps.
The reason goats happened is because you can’t have a ohk on a tank, mostly.

2 Likes
5

I’m a bit nervous about lucio buffs, he’s already very strong. I could get behind zen buffs though. how about:
Orb of destruction primary damage increased from 48 to 52
Discord orb vulnerability increased from 30% to 35%

6

I honestly think asking for reverts from power creep and damage creep especially is asking for too much at this point.

The way I see it, Blizzard is aiming for as little change as possible while wanting the best results possible.

Genji, unlike literally ever other dps, (Yes sombra/bastion/Sym are power crept, their buffs just don’t help with their poor design or nerfs) had no power creep. This just proves Blizzard wants to “balance” Genji without drastic game changes.

Yikes!

Not what I was thinking…

No comment on the primary buff cause idk but that discord buff is a no thank you from me. It’ll start behaving like anti-nade where you throw it on someone to burn them down asap.

2 Likes
7

To be fair, Ana does a lot more than Zen. Zen basically only deals damage

8

This won’t do anything to help supports especially since Lucio is time currently, what we need is 60 HPS back for mercy, more heals for zen, mode shield health for brig and countless reverts for bap

1 Like
9

I’m talking about as a team effort

Because tanks absolutely suck at tanking, it’s easy to imagine discord Rein asap and if he doesn’t have Zarya just delete him from existence. Both anti and discord make targets very vulnerable and that “burn them” method of focusing a target can be used on anyone.

It’s just easy to throw it on someone fat and slow to delete.

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10

He should be eating the backline though? That’s his job?

Also, there is the possibility that these buffs land him in a good place, his viability would threaten the double main healer meta, which would stamp out this uprising of double shield play we’re seeing (AKA the worst meta in Overwatch’s history).

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11

I’m not making a thread to buff supports, which is arguable if any supports need to be any stronger.

This is focused in reaction to the newest experimental. Nevertheless, I do believe Brigg’s barrier is fine just needs a lower deployment time and Bap just needs 60 healing on direct hits.

Zen doesn’t need a healing buff, that wouldn’t even help him unless it was a stupidly high addition of healing such as having 2 orbs

Yes but when you solo queue supports and you’re getting farmed, you’re probably not happy. With the Moira nerf, no support has any real chance of defending themselves from him anymore so now, if your team won’t baby sit you…just take the L for the match? Fun if you’re not the support ig

True

1 Like
12

My logic is that Ana has a lot of team value on top of nade, while Zen is discord orb. This would also put his damage per shot to exactly 70.

13

Well that’s your problem, Zenyatta is a lot more than discord, especially if you actually play him.

Little hint, if anti didn’t negate all healing, Ana wouldn’t have a crazy pick rate the past few months. High pickrate as the only support who made it this far with no decent nerfs? Yes. Absolutely insane such as weaks with >90% picks? I highly doubt it

By your logic, ana is anti, zen is discord, mercy is dmg boost with a rez every 60 seconds for her pocket, lucio is speed and brigg is…armor for zen in OWL? What even is Brigg?

Bap is nothing considering how over nerfed he got lol

1 Like
14

I would argue it’s a buff but the important part is that we’re both against it. :+1:

Brig can bash him, Moira can throw damage orb and fade away, Lucio can boop and speed away. That’s enough counterplay from the roster Genji is supposed to harass IMO.

If Genji were found to be to OP, I would argue for a dragonblade nerf so that he can keep the buffs to his kit, but tone down nanoblade potential.

15

Ana also has the longest range of any support, The highest single target heals without ability use, sleep, and Nano.

Zen has what, a four shot kill, natural shields, and beat light ™

16

What it is, is a mess

The game isn’t about 1v1s

At minimum, supports will have to full focus Genji to not get farmed and be unable to focus on actually supporting, especially since if he’s getting any healing, even a medpack, he’s not dying.

Zen’s damage is extraordinarily valuable, without pairing it with his discord.

This is because he has access to sustain damage on his primary and burst on his secondary. After the barrier nerfs, zen’s definitely doing better.

His harmony orb helps greatly with targets like Wreckingball/Tracer who commonly fade in and out of LoS and will be unable to be easily healed. Because it stays for 3 seconds without LoS, it’s even better than Ana’s healing, especially than when she doesn’t scope and has to fire projectiles.

It’s downside, ofc, is that the healing is relatively low at 30 hps, but it’s not like mobile targets that traverse the battle field need ridiculous amounts of healing.

And transcendence is honestly the depth of his kit, turning a highly vulnerable hybrid support into an indestructible force that makes his teammates nearly unkillable.

No other support is anything like Zenyatta as they all feel like heroes designed for a job, you pick them because you have a goal in mind.

Zenyatta, unlike basically the roster minus Wreckingball, is a hero you pick to find use out of. And in Overwatch, a game of rock-paper-scissors, I instead of proposing nerfing rock, we adjust scissors so that even though it’ll still get smashed by rock, it can cut through it…

Ok weird analogy…basically more counterplay by what’s countered…

It’s also unfair to call trans a light beat considering beat lasts half a second and can be damaged through. Trans, even if overwhelmed, will exhaust everything from the enemies whereas beat is, if he can get it off, wait half a second and it’s already nearly gone.

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17

Are you seriously saying you don’t want supports buffed when the title of your post is literally “please buff supports”

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18

Not in the manner you’re suggesting, no. It’ll just lead to further nerfs if they actually got those. Minus maybe Brigg barrier health? She doesn’t really need it too much but her tissue paper of a barrier ain’t exactly causing problems with another 50-75 health.

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19

It goes the other way, too. The backline should ask for help if they are being harassed by a Genji, there is no reason they should be fighting a character that is designed to beat them in 1v1. Ask for your off tank to help peel for you (it’s their job), or if your off tank is taking a vacation to your spawn, even some attention from your DPS should be able to stop him.

If he goes to get a medpack, he’s getting no value and letting the backline get free value. Granted it’s better than dying, but it’s something I would count as a ‘win’ for the backline.

And as for other healers, unless they are flanking with him or Zenyatta, they aren’t going to be healing him very much. There is a reason behind the joke that Genji always needs healing.

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20

I do agree, however teams just aren’t magically coordinated. Unfortunately, it’s far too common to feel abandoned almost as enemies can bully you.

The worst part is when your team disses you when you aren’t being aided no matter what you do. Fortunately, to combat a lack of comms, they have added an “I need help” voiceline. If only if we could say “Come to me for Healing”…

Not necessarily. Everything is not in a flash. Anything that Genji does, even if he misses all his shots, has value.

Ana can’t heal if she’s being harrassed. Suddenly, she’s 13 health and must nade herself. As rein has received no healing for the past x seconds, he needs Ana’s burst heal as she no longer has access to.

On the flip side, if Genji was unsuccessful in forcing any abilities out of her, Reinhardt could even have died or failed to push the enemies from a “sudden” lack of healing. There is no “winner” if Genji is uncontested yet unsuccessful.

Genji can play with the team lol. Idk why Genji is thought of as the Doomfist that never leaves the enemies’ backlines…when it’s probably more of the inverse as Doom is less dependent and Genji is a little more vulnerable after the hitscan and CC creep.

Fair.

But I still have trauma as every 3-4 matches there is a dps or tank that starts to endlessly spam “I need healing” after being headshot. Crap is annoying as I don’t know what…

1 Like