Okay so MMR. Its NOT a quantifiable number. Like say SR. MMR is essentially a profile on you. This tells the system a bunch of information to make a prediction on where you should be. Again it is not a quantifiable number like SR. You don’t have a hidden MMR of 2.5 or 1500 cause it doesn’t work that way.
What’s happening with s9. The reset. when s9 hits your MMR profile will become much more flexible. New data will hold far more weight than old data. This is your chance to change that MMR profile. A chance that players will have once a year from now on. If you play well, you absolutely can make a significant change to your MMR and end up at a higher rank than you’ve been in and if you play very poorly the opposite, you will end up lower.
I dont get why people argue this. This is what Blizzard is doing and how these systems work. Theyve never done this before. Weve all been playing with profiles that are using data from years and years ago. People will be able to significantly change their profiles with this. Some of us are being ranked on data from before role queue still. Its a different game now.
I mean legitimately think about how many massive changes have been in this game to change the way it plays at a fundamental level. yet peoples MMR profiles have remained the same through it all even though the game itself has evolved and changed over time. Its honestly time to let all the old data go and start building new profiles and this is how you do that.
Here are a few things that might be effecting your rank. Hero stacking (you could at one point play all Dva or all Torbs) Open queue only competitive before 2 2 2. Goats meta, double shield. just to name a few.
The previous resets have all been cosmetic. This change will be huge! Now for newer accounts, you will see less of a swing but for older accounts especially. This is going to allow you to rewrite your MMR profile to let the system predictions to make a big change in your SR.
As you do your placements the MMR profile will be updated to reflect the new data rather than old data and make new predictions. Again this has never been done. So yes this is a reset in the sense that from your 1st placement match on you are writing a new MMR profile for yourself.
No there was some modifier or something that has to do with that. I have no idea exactly what its part of or how it works. But MMR is a complete player profile that look at base stats such as accuracy KD/R APM. But it also makes other calculations that pertain to say, how many times this player has beaten a higher ranked one, how often does player lose in a 1 v 1 to its counter or one that statistically should be an easy duel. This is why its not a quantifiable number.
Its a system that takes probably dozens if not more parameters then makes predictions based on its calculations as a whole. It then represents that number as an average SR thats in the range of that MMR player. For example G1 players will all have a similar MMR prediction of G1 but the profiles may be vastly different.
The modifiers are the -3 to +3, and can also be affected and therefore change. Depending on what model of prediction you use, most will rely on a regression model, it is kinda possible to infere a predictable quantity, can check against the prediction and adjust the calculation of the modifiers depending on the scale of error and you can test if the regression you apply on is significant, if not another model of prediction needs to be choosen, also you can see which predicators to predict have more significant influence on the predicted value meaning what factor has more weight in the regression formular.
All I can say is this is an actual reset where youll be able to rewrite your MMR profile. Its not another fake cosmetic change. So for those that didnt know what made your MMR its all the stuff above lol. Also this is why its going to be a real reset. The new data starting from s9 will make up your new MMR profile not just a fake icon.
It either has to be a number or a text that can be converted to a number to have some sort of meaning in calculating and assigning players in matchmaking. If it wasn’t I would be very interested to see String in C# etc converted to a matchmaking or MMR (as a programmer).
i don’t know but weren’t you able to rewrite your profile by just simple create another account?
That depends on what the string contains and should represent, do you know ATOI and base 10 application? If the string represents a number, you can convert it to a actual numeric data type, if not you may get a hash code in hexadecimal format, which again is just a large numeric.
well it is but its not anything that would make sense to look at. its a string of data. They convert that into the number we see as SR. The string of data id imagine is incredibly long and complex made up of everything, stats, W/L, very specific dating like dying to counters and other more really detailed things that happen in a match. So yeah I mean the SR is the MMR quantified in a way but its also only an estimate thats pretty fluid most of the time.
So its never really a 1 to 1. Its always a prediction based on all the criteria that make up MMR.
I know you know the data stuff but explaining it for people that don’t lol. But yeah from what I know and have been told the system is incredibly complicated and all that good stuff that the MMR system in this game looks at literally everything you do while playing and its essentially like a permanent record lol.
Yes but if it is kind of type “We got 5 wins in a row, and lost 3 in a row with poor stats”??? It has to be a numerical presentation in the end…in my mind atleast
Honestly if they do this right itll fix a lot of issues. A major problem with never resetting the system or having a period where its allows itself to make massive corrections. Is you end up with a system that can become too confident.
With OW its gone through an incredible number of changes to the core gameplay. Major balance shifts. Essentially the games been changed quite drastically. The game does not play the same therefore basing future prediction on old data means current predictions cant be accurate. In some cases they may be correct, some may be slightly off, others may be incredibly off from where a current player would be not having that out of date data weighing in. What I mean by that is anything the system is predicting is skewed by out of date data currently
This is why we see so many badly balanced matches, why so many players feel like they see a smurf in every game. Allowing the system to essentially rewrite a players MMR profile using only a limited amount of old data as the starting point will in fact bring things into balance much faster and be far more accurate to the current game.
You are going to have more movement both up and down following matches, with visible indicators, and for everyone who thinks they are hard stuck, and move up and down the ladder faster than normal it’s going to be funny because in 2 months time, the same people will be complaining about the same matchmaker and saying it’s rigged against them… Even though Blizz are giving all of them what they asked for… ‘Transparency’
It’s a soft reset anyway, only the extreme ranks will be effected at launch, those in silver/diamond won’t experience much of a change at all in rank, expect having random Bronze/GM’s in their game and ending up in the same place for a couple weeks
Old data/new data it doesn’t make a difference, after 50 games your MMR will be solidified again for another year… And everyone will likely be in the same place they are now… People should not expect massive changes from this patch
All im saying is this is much bigger of a change than some people seem to think. Plus Cowboy Bebop colab so like. I hate you Blizzard take my money… Love Cowboy Bebop! Such a good series! Just give some of the too much money it will cost to charity and were good Blizzard. Something good, education or the arts. Any art program that does good work you know lol
Also here we go. like I said, everyone is essentially getting reset. theyre using minimal data to start most people around the middle. The placements will essentially be what dictates your rank/MMR going forward. “if youre a GM1 now, expect a climb” everyone is going to be rebuilding their MMR profiles which in a way is your SR but also its not. (corrected that to make more sense lol)
Also a “soft reset” Just means its not a complete data wipe. Obviously it doesnt want to throw pros and bronze players in the same game. So yes, you may start relatively where you left off if you were mid lower ranked players. But after a game or two youll start seeing the correction or the system testing you with calibrating matches
Krunk you seem positive spirited, and I hope you’re right. But there’s that video of how the original ow match maker was made, and there’s that post that went somewhat into details … and they all said the same thing of a -3/3 range.
A string of profile numbers:
Sounds more like skill base Mmr. Cause those “skill” stats would influence your match maker decisions vs wins and losses. And even the devs say wins and losses are the only factor.
You bring out the very reason the mmr equation should be public. So many theories (and I may have spawn some myself) but always advocate transparency.
The profile stats suck, and are riddled with mathematical problems. Lose 1 game with a toon and get a 30% win rate. I would hope to god they don’t use those shotty numbers for match maker. (But maybe they do cause of the bad matches I get after I start deviating from my main).
I blame Blizzard for not being clear about the system for this. as you mentioned it not being public does hurt the players.
They probably use different metrics but in order to figure out general skill level they have to use statistics in some way. All MMR systems do, they don’t directly use that data to build a match though. That’s were the complexity of the system comes into play. So technically yes they aren’t wrong when they say SR only moves on a win and loss. but your MMR is fluid and always adjusting and calculating behind the scenes based on whatever criteria blizzard has set up to be tracked. Also yeah the stats we see are pretty wonky and don’t tell us much still. Hopefully that’s also at least made better in the update.
Ive been saying it for a while. But these types of system need regular adjustment periods where numbers can make very wide shifts in a short period of time. Not all the time but periodically. If they dont get those adjustment cycles they become too confident and create a feedback loop essentially where the system inadvertently becomes so confident it forces the result it believes to be correct in rare instances (ELO hell. This also works in reverse you could end up being carried by MMR to prop up a player the system wrongly believes to be higher ranked) Most games do these resets fairly regularly because they understand you kind of have to do it. As a game evolves it changes and old data becomes useless so you have to purge it regularly. OW simply has never done this. This account is carrying MMR from S5 OW1 still. there is no way even data from S1 OW2 is still relevant but its there.
You exactly do have a hidden mmr which is a single number. It’s all there is.
Everyone has an internal matchmaking rating (MMR) that’s a numerical value to describe your skill relative to everyone else. However, MMR isn’t an absolute value, meaning your MMR can change even if your personal skill stays the same. T
Like i said Blizzard does an awful job of explaining these systems. Its such a complex thing an answer can be right or wrong depending on the context.
Point being MMR systems are actually incredibly complicated. Ill try and find a good breakdown that explains them better than I can. But they’re relatively standard across all games. The only difference is how they’re maintained which criteria they weigh higher or lower and so on.
Skill, Matchmaking, and Ranking Systems Design youtube.com/ watch?v=-pglxege-gU
Well sure, but they have stated that it’s just a number and it’s based on wins and losses. In that regard, i’m not sure what further down would they need to explain.
In OW1 there was stats based system in place,which was later only for people below diamond. They never elaborated on what stats they used, but in ow2 its gone.
I’d imagine there is complexity just in finding “balanced games” between people of different mmr’s in different roles etc. And in a reasonable time. And all that “modifiers” so which team is stronger, how much are they stronger etc.
But that’s a … matchmaking issue? a bit separate from just how you rate a single player, depends how you look at it I guess.
I do know matchmaking systems altogether can be complex beasts, and i by no means are not that knowledgeable abou them. It’s an interesting thing though.
I mean yeah maybe, it doesn’t change the overall point though. Which is the game has changed so much. That the best way to rebalance things at this point is to take that MMR profile number whatever and essentially delete a majority of the data that makes it up allowing it to recalculate. Thats what im saying.
The point is they’ve never done this in the history of the game. even though its now a completely different game. So after a few games, people will quite possibly start to see changes in their MMR and therefore SR. I work on the art side of stuff. I only know enough about matchmaking systems to have a basic idea and know how a real reset can effect them. A lot of people dont seem to think this will actually make a difference but it 100% will