[OW2] Role Lock and Role Limits Hybrid

General Discussion
1

So if anybody has been around these forums a bit, you might know, I talk about Queue design… a lot. But I think I have a bit of a breakthrough, in combining a few older ideas together.

Here’s the proposed solution, which may give the best of both queue times, balance, and player preference.

So to start with, you have the idea I’ve been kicking around of a “Role Limits” mode. Where it’s basically Open Queue, but with Role Limits. Specifically:

ROLE LIMITS

  • 5 players per team
  • 1 maximum Tank per team
  • 2 maximum Supports per team
  • 5 maximum Damage per team

This approach is pretty good… but it’s still missing something. You still have quite a significant number of players that really would prefer to avoid the dreaded threat of 5x DPS comps, or 4x DPS and then you not being able to go both Tank AND Support. Even if that means taking a bit more queue time to get that.

Add a second optional queue, that queues people into Role Locked teams.

ROLE LOCK

  • 5 players per team
  • 1 maximum Tank per team
  • 2 maximum Supports per team
  • 2 maximum Damage per team

However there’s nothing terribly new about that. It’s basically just Role Queue.

Now here’s where the magic kicks in.

Matchmaker those Role Locked and Role Limited teams, together into the same set of matches.

At first this sounds like it would be a huge problem, but it’s not. And I’ll tell you why.

For the most part, the Role Unlocked teams are not capable of creating more optimal compositions than the Role Locked teams. The enemy team isn’t capable of using a ton more Tanks/Supports than your team. All they can do is swap out Tanks/Supports for additional DPS players. Which usually leads to compositions that are more fragile and less effective.

Now comes the real magic. They don’t need to change the user-interface at all. Just how it behaves.

Have it where if people queue into Tank, Damage, or Support. Then they are put into Role Locked teams.

And if they queue for Flex, they are put into Role Limited teams, which have 1Tank/2Support Role Limits, on a first-come-first-serve basis.

Maybe I’m missing something, but it seems like this would provide perhaps the best performance of all alternatives, in terms of

  1. Queue times, for Flex players

  2. Reliability and queue-time reduction for Role Queue players

    • Since the DPS queues will be somewhat depopulated.

  3. Prevents the possibility of overly defensive compositions like the potential of GigaGOATs in OW2.

All of this would be intended to be tested out in a Quickplay style environment. However if it’s successful there, I could see this format being used in Competitive too.

2

Just stop with this.

The reality of what you get in match is an insta-locking tank who refuses to swap and let an actual tank player take over the role.

It’s a massive fundamental flaw that you have yet to address. You just straw man with “Well do you want 10 minute queues or a throwing tank instead?!?”

Maybe those are the only two realities players are permitted with your horribly flawed idea, but the entirety of the player base should not be forced into these failures.

Instead, what should happen is tank and support players receiving more content and more engaging heroes. Long term that is the only way to create sustainable queues.

Regardless of whatever happens, this franchise is done. Content will dry up for anyone not willing to shell out an absurd amount of IRL dollars, balance will remain askew given the lack of tangible changes within the team, and queue times will persist as miserable, as ultimately the game will always feel “unplayable” for one role or another.

1 Like
3

That’s exactly what this version of this idea seeks to address.

If you’re a player who prefers the reliability of guaranteed 1-2-2 Compositions, go Role Lock.

If there are other player who prefer lightning fast queue times, go Role Limits.

4

If you want “lightening queues”…Open Queue.

QPC and OQ nowadays is ridiculously fast.

Why can’t players go live in there? Why are you so scared of two tanks? What on ladder has ever suggested Open Queue isn’t the way to play this game?

5

Lightning queues into extremely horrible gameplay balance is kinda pathetic.

What if people want quick games AND to not have Tank spamfests?

Why would the devs want to bring back GOATs into a primary game mode?

Much less GOATs with extra powerful Tanks?

Yes yes, the devs should release 3 months of content every 2 weeks.

Why hadn’t I thought of that?

Oh right…

6

GOATS was never an issue anywhere on ladder.

Even at GM play GOATS was never all that pervasive.

GOATS was an OWL driven balance.

7

Even if it wasn’t GOATs, the equivalent of Slambulence works in pretty much all ELOs.

Much less a bunch of barrier spam, stacked with a bunch of poke.

The issue is “excessively defensive compositions” which would be a problem at all ELOs if they had the current OW2 Tanks/Supports.

8

But I thought it’s been long established players don’t want to play tank?

Even now in OW1 where multi tank comps can dominate the OQ format players simply don’t force them.

Just about everyone wants to DPS. So what you see when there’s full player autonomy is DPS heavy comps. Nobody is reverting to or crutching on tanks in OQ. When it happens it’s incredibly rare.

So my point is, there’s no need to limit the roles.

9

The problem with overly defensive compositions, is pretty much the only way to beat them, is by also playing an overly defensive composition.

And then devs went to large efforts to make it so Tanks are more fun to play, and a lot more powerful.

10

Thank you.

Don’t like this idea.

This would suck. I don’t want a team with a possible 5 DPS because every other game would be a disaster like open queue is now.

But being in a role locked team vs a role unlocked team wouldn’t be fair because they would have significantly more flexibility.

Open queue and role queue both have their problems but for me role queue solves enough problems to make it worth it. This does not fix my problems with open queue and actually adds new problems.

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11

Could you outline a specific scenario where that would be a problem?

For instance, are you arguing 1-3-1 comp would have an advantage over a 1-2-2 comp?

12

I could but I don’t need to.

There is inherently more flexibility in handling counters and swapping if one team can choose from 25 heroes and the other team can only choose between 10 (or 17 if they’re DPS).

13

But ya kinda do. Since the way I’m seeing it, if your subtract away Tanks and Supports away from 1-2-2, I’m having a hard time seeing why that would lead to a more optimal composition, and not a less optimal composition.

You made a claim. Back it up.

14

X tank is mostly countered by DPS and both teams run it.

Role locked team has two counters.

Role unlocked team has three.

Role unlocked team has an unfair advantage.

“But they have one less healer!”

Having more options and more flexibility is an inherent advantage.

I disagree with your idea.

I prefer role queue for the sake of team composition and balance.

15

You say that like it’s not significant.

16

And you act like having more flexibility in a game about counter play isn’t.

17

Depends how limited that flexibility is.

And in this current context, it would be choosing a more fragile composition.

18

It’s a lot less limited than the role locked team.

If you actually believe that subtracting tanks and healers can not lead to a more optimal composition, even on a counter play basis, what’s the point of this exercise? To give people the option to get locked out of tank or play less optimal comps?

19

If anything, you just make a point where it should take a vote to unlock the Role Locked team midgame.

For the rare offchance that what you’re saying happens.

They could either make it 4 votes, or 3 votes if it’s all the Supports and Tanks.

20

Or just leave role queue and open queue.

We’ll have to agree to disagree. I don’t think your idea will be picked up any time soon anyway.