Overwatch has "range" problem

General Discussion
1

By that I mean “there is a huge disproportion between heroes’ effective range and how they were intended be played”.

The difference between heroes is weird. We’ve got heroes like Tracer, Reaper and McCree. These three are theoretically close-to-mid range heroes. Yet Tracer feels like mid-range, McCree is long range (hi fall-off buff from 3 years ago) and Reaper is melee at best, his damage is laughable beyond 5 meters. The same is for Soldier, who is a long-range hero now thx to spread change, and even for some projectile heroes like Junkrat, who can be a long-range hero too because his grenades travel that fast.

There are heroes who stayed the same. Almost all of them are in Tank category, and some in Support, though their range is limited by design and can’t be manipulated (well, almost). Otherwise the effective range of heroes is so out of place the game might need a global “rework”. Remember when Widow was given a “fall-off” too? The range for that was so big there are like 3 spots in the entire game where it mattered. And it’s considered long range.

This is certainly not okay and should be changed. The game needs to reconsider what is short, mid and long range. It is, by the way, a part of “power creep” and why Tanks feel the weakest of all roles - because their natural range is short, and there are barely heroes left who operate in such range.

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2

I agree.

If you ask me the easiest way to determine range is by playstyle.

Divers and flankers should have close range which is around 10 meters at maximum but have high mobility in order to make sure they can get that range.

Brawlers and chokers should have medium range which is around 30 meters at maximum. Because they have more range they don’t need as much mobility but they do need more protection in order to get that range.

Stationary heroes and kiters should have an ulimited range. Because of that they have much less protection or speed.

Most heroes tbh are in a very good spot in that term.
But Soldier:76 and Mccree could use a harder nerf to their fall off damage.
Same for Tracer.

Torb can use a slight buff to its turret range although usually it doesn’t really matter.
And Reaper can use a slight buff to its shadow step range.

But other than that every hero is perfect…

Sure tanks can use more long range tanks but considering except for Orisa all other tanks are divers,brawlers and chokers. The ranges the ones we already have make a lot of sense.

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Tracer is not mid-range, she has massive spread and 12 meter falloff.

Soldier is not long range, the recoil change made it harder for him to aim at longer ranges

Reaper is close range, Reaper has similar range to Tracer.

Junkrat is not a long range hero.

Tanks are still better then DPS, since DPS got those massive nerfs in mid 2020, if u think Tanks get destroyed when they have 500+ hp, guess what happens to DPS.

4

I’d simply consider
1-10 meters close range
10-20~25 meters mid-range
20~25 meters or more long range

these including falloff.
Projectile heroes kind of are only reliable up to mid-range, but there’s some variance…

maybe mid range should be up to 30 meter?

Most “mid-ranged” tanks have falloff up to 20~25 meters

5

people seem to dislike when heroes have defined niches, but i am veeeery pro that. i prefer it when games have set rules that you can work with, rather than mushy gray areas that create chaos and bad balance.

id rather have 5 viable divers (for example) who are somewhat similar to each other, than have 3 of the 5 unviable because the other 2 are so “multiclass” that they get away with anything. (divers is just an example, please dont get hung up on that)

6

Completely agree. Hitscans have gotten a lot of buffs to their effective ranges over the years to try and compete with Widow, who previously had an infinite range. However, the downside to this is that it effectively edges out all projectile heroes because their benefit is that they have no fall-off, but there’s travel time and prediction because of that.

Maps are designed so that most engagement distances aren’t going to be more than 50 meters the vast overwhelming majority of the time. This should theoretically mean that projectile heroes are better on maps with longer sightlines because hitscans (besides Widow) experience damage fall-off that makes them unable to deal heavy damage. Hitscans having such long range now means that they basically edge projectile heroes out of their niche.

Why pick Mei or Junkrat when Soldier or McCree can kill just as fast, if not faster, and from further away? There needs to be situations in which choosing a generic shoot boy isn’t the best option, but with fall-off the way it is right now, there really isn’t.

Thinking back on it, Mei actually did have fall-off on her alt-fire for the longest time because they were worried about her becoming a ‘projectile sniper’ since she could OHKO Tracer with a headshot. Considering how meh Mei is now, it’s kind of funny to remember, actually.

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A lot of people just come from the normal fps games and sure every should be as general as possible, but you can’t really make different roles, different hit boxes and different playstyles with specific abilities like turrets or spread and expect heroes to be fair match ups…

A good way to solve the chaos-balance state in my opinion is what we already have a bit from with hybrid playstyles.

Echo, Pharah and Mercy aren’t really perfect divers as they don’t want to be too close at least at the start, but they also can’t play from range without moving like stationary heroes, they are in between.

So rather than 3 playstyles you make an order in the chaos by purposing something in between that of course has counters from different playstyles as well but it’s more planned.

Don’t worry about comments against it, these are usually fps players who will be upset about Soldier suddenly not being able to kill a tank from the other side of the map despite having tools like rocket or healing for closer fights.

2 Likes
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Every tried Dva? She even slows down while shooting and pushing her critbox into your face while at it xD

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Tanks with long ranges kind of is against the purpose of tanks being durable, because:

A tank having long range, but lacking in protection kind of is just a DPS, not a tank, unless they have major drawbacks to compensate their durability, such as Orisa, like projectile shots, spammy to keep the TTK higher when the range becomes unreliable for the projectiles, no AoE damage, penalty while moving, stationary barrier, those stuff… But then, when other heroes get in close, they are kind of easier to take down, which is kind of bad for a tank to secure space. For long ranges a deadly squishy sniper secure more space than a tank with less deadly and less reliable damage, and if you raise the damage of the long-ranged tank it becomes oppressive.

1 Like
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to go further:
it is easier to have a hero be good at a certain job, than have that hero be good at many jobs, without being overwhelming.
rather have a hero be really good at their designated role, and subpar at everything else, so that they can function but also be countered. the moment you introduce heroes who are good at everything, the niche heroes become obsolete.
you can technically still run them but will always be at a disadvantage.

2 Likes
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At long range you can just make a tank without lower overall damage but higher range.

Every hero in the game should have a fitting range and a range he’s weak to like the name of the post suggests.

Considering long range tanks control the long range they expect stuff like Brawlers,chokers,kiters & mirror. But up close they shouldn’t be as strong.

I don’t see noting bad about long range tanks as the space they want to keep is the one between them and the enemy rather than getting a new space.

Like you said Orisa was a good design for a tank as her playstyle forced her to be strong at range but weak up close, but her fortify was a bit over tuned if you ask me… Not to mention with no protections in the game really makes sense double shields will be meta.

Anyways, because these tanks range should be the long range, they shouldn’t fear to the space they’re currently at but rather the space the enemies currently claim.

Besides, focusing on damage instead of protection shouldn’t always be a dps thing, like you said, if you put spammy damage from range that can’t really kill anyone but puts pressure you aready put more damage than the enemies, and if they don’t have the proper range your protection shouldn’t be too strong.
So in theory you can do the same damage as Moira and still do more damage than the enemies because of the range.

Sorry if was a bit repetitive but you started with long range tanks shouldn’t be a thing and then explained exactly how they should be a thing so I’m a bit confused on how I should reply to that lol.

I agree.

I really think that’s a bit of the reason Echo became a meta in the first place, same thing for Sigma and Orisa.

They have a lot of potential to have a specific job but their kit kind of let them avoid their counters a bit too hard… (Orisa’s fortify was a bit too strong, Sigma’s shield starts too close while putting too much burst for a tanks and Echo just has a too small hit box if you ask me…)

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I read rage at first

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Let me more clear then.
Orisa is the perfect example for designing a long ranged tank, but also the perfect example of not highly attractive tank because of her drawbacks. People played her more because she was useful, but she’s not that type of tank that could drag players to the role and improve queue times, you know?

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I think her problem was mostly the fact she was a shield destroyer without actually having the damage to do so.

Players find impact=fun and with shields not breaking and she just keeps on shooting them she feels really boring… So while for her specific problem I think new protections and making shields weaker to projectiles would work.
Or just more spread with more damage.

For other tanks you can just play around with what they should be good against.
A good example I see on the forums is people wanting a sniper tank, which can work tbh in a similar way for Ana of being bursty but just not doing too much damage. So you’d be impactful against stuff like kiters or snipers without really feeling boring due to getting value.

Another option is just going the Hammond route by giving the damage a secondary effect that will give the feeling of value. Like a tank shooting wind blows/wave the knock enemies back a bit and go behind shields but do little damage.
So against Zarya for example this tank will be very amazing but against D.va not much you can do…

15

Speaking of range…

Flankers/Divers

The reason why a lot of flankers/divers are bad, is because they either can’t survive being within their effective range, or they don’t have the damage to secure a kill in their effect range.

Tracer is fine because, hard to hit hitbox, and the least predictable mobility in the game. Echo is good because she has some range with her sticky bombs, beam, and decent mid ranged poke, so she doesn’t need to as close as the others.

Let’s get back on topic, I totally agree.

16

I think this is a fairly accurate summary, however I think you’re missing the mark a bit with your actual arguement.

‘Feels’ mid-range, but she’s in fact not. She simply has mobility to close the distance and thus her range feels more flexible.
If she’s shooting at you from all the way across an objective, you’ll lose hardly any HP. She’s definitely a close-range hero.

Kind of. He’s roughly the same as Tracer for range, especially against tanks. He has a much higher spread meaning the further he is, the less damage he’ll do (this dmg drops significantly). But when he’s super close he packs way more punch than Tracer ever could.

Thats the trade off.

Inaccurate. Mccree is mid-range. He is not designed to be a close-range hero, nor long range.

He has no scope and only 6 bullets making long distance shooting very risky and really only useful against tanks. He has FTH + stun as self-peel and survival mechanics. Almost every dps has some form of this. In your example, Tracer can ‘recall’ her health and is invincible during her blinks. Reaper life-steals, and has wraith.

Mccree cannot make imself invinicble or recover health in anyway, yet his hitbox is as big as reapers. The flash - fan part of Mccrees kit is added as a form of self protection and only useful in closerange.

In my opinion, close range is the distance of half a 2cp objective point.
Mid-range is the distance of a full 2cp objective point.
Long-range is literally any distance greater than that. (Think Havana sightlines, junkertown, rialto, etc). 2 or more objective points in length.

By that standard, Tracer/reaper are close-range.
If they shot you from the otherside of the objective, they’d be barely doing anything.

And Mccree is mid-range.
If he was shooting at you from the other side of Junkertown and you die to it in seconds, you were either standing still, walking in a straight line, hes a t500 smurf (unlikely) or hes cheating.

17

so true, almost every tank is brawl oriented or works in brawl scenarios. the only 2 long range tanks is sigma and ball: Ball is so mobile that you can say he is and sigma has fairly decent range however it isnt infinite. this is one of the reasons these 2 heroes were meta. not due to any synergy. simply because of their range in a poke meta.

If your a dps or support player I dont mean to be rude to you I bet your a wonderful person but right now: your role is either busted or basically busted: Baptiste is a better ana and has high damage with super long range. Zenyatta while he is a glass canon and is meant to have range He shouldn’t be a sniper, a Mid range hero is fine. Other heroes i have problems with in support is brig and mercy, Brig is a bodyguard and gives armor to those who shouldn’t have it, Mercy makes the range problem worst. while doing so much aswell.

now to dps: Mcree needs major falloff damage and honestly just damage nerfs OR Nerf his stun into the ground and take away the 25 hp. making him much more vulnerable. hanzo should be long range but with his storm arrow buff he thrives in all ranges. that buff should never have happened. Widow is I dont know enough about but I would maybe nerf her. She is still good. Ashe should be nerfed more she never should have gotten the firerate compensation and her damage needs to be nerfed more. solider needs a helix rocket nerf, longer cooldown or less damage or preferably both. I could go on and on. the point is your super accurate here and allot of these heroes need to chill so tank is more playable and brawl heroes are playable again.

18

You say this like 0.2s really made the difference. Storm arrows has always been strong, now it’s literally 1/5 of a second faster and people say Hanzo is OP. nerf the damage. He’s also not long range because he shoots projectiles.

Widow is niche now since the health nerf, because she can’t stand as far forward. It’s a strong niche though but you can’t nerf her much more.

You clearly don’t understand the impact of that nerf. It ruined Ashe’s best support synergy, took away headshot hipfire combo, it took away headshot burst damage, which meant that her damage can be more frequently outhealed. It took away ammo since she now has to fire more and therefore reload more. It had more impacts than people acknowledge. it was a good nerf.

I’d say yes, but actually no. because his pickrate is borderline Genji and Doomfist. He is simply outclassed at the moment, maybe he’d rise with Mccree and Tracer nerfs but there is 0 need to nerf him.

These are too major. A simple reload nerf and then maybe a FTH damage nerf would suffice.

Hitscan + hanzo are not the devil. But nerfing them to the ground solves nothing.

Baptiste’s fall-off is like 25m? he wants to play the backline so any less would force him too far forward. Also if he’s so much better than Ana why is there pickrate basically the same?

I think you’ll find a 90m/s projectile is not a sniper. And his damage is also not sniper worthy either. Unless you want to call Orisa a sniper since her projectiles and damage are both faster and more damage? Or call mei a sniper? for having similar projectile speed.

That’s her ult? And once it is gone it is gone. She doesn’t have repair pack armour anymore my dude.

Mercy’s range is like 15m. Her damage boost reduces fall-off ever so slightly by damage boosting fall-off damage but at that point you have 2 heroes experiencing the same fall-off detriment and her dmg boost is getting poor value. And what do you mean “doing so much as well” She can do ONE thing at any given time. If she is damage boosting she is not healing. etc.

Mobility doesn’t make you long range. In fact ball’s fall-off is 15m and he has spread. His abilities require melee range. How do you argue this is long range. then say Orisa is not long range.

Sigma’s max range is only 22m. This is 2m more than Mccree, a mid-range hero. Roadhog’s hook is 20m too. Is roadhog now a long range hero?

No it’s because of their damage and poke damage. You know, it’s in the NAME of the meta. While main tanks suck. So you need good survivability. Currently Zarya has overtaken sigma since the shield nerf too. Is her 15m beam too long range for you?

19

you lost me there.

hmmm I don’t really think it’s really an “inconsistency of definitions of short vs medium vs long range”, but rather just inconsistent standards of heroes’ effective ranges vs how they reach them vs how long their kit can facilitate them being there long enough.

20

paladins did it right by giving projectiles falloff on some heroes, especially on tanks.
Honestly, the game truly needs a top down rework, they need to take all their heroes and rebalance them from scratch, asking themselves “ok, what do we want this guy to do?”
This without caring about potential synergies at first. Kinda like going back to the drawing board.
That and changing how 2cp works