I mean, they changed most of how the game was supposed to be. It’s supposed to have core changes, I’m still surprised that they didn’t done several core changes in the game.
About reward structure they can solve it somewhat simple, like they did previously with arcade on ow1. The issue is how to make game modes in there attractive with the changes they did to begin with.
Tbh, if they actually make workshop available again or broad enable multiple patches they could fix their queue times by simple enabling grind bp and challenges on arcade modes. While enable folks create arcade modes and be submited to be approved from OW team as “acceptable mode” for those challenges and bp.
Things like Deathmatch, Open, elimination and capture the flag could be used really well to drain certain excess of players from main modes.
Make deathmatch damage role only or enable more customizable options for it, Open can be complicated due the current power from tanks but doable. Elimination being a bit more mainstream and capture the flag also more attractive. Spicy things up and mix some stuff.
They need alternative modes to pick damage players from main modes, improving queue times in there, instead of this problematic powercreep introduction. While at same time monitor the tank exodus due them being really strong on other modes also.
Well, see ya when you fix MM, I’ll not beta test and be frustrated while you figure out how to match players. Seeing teammates who don’t even know what is ultimate, it’s not the definition of ‘fun’.
I know exactly how, why, and where their system is wonky and why it will keep putting people in the wrong places.
There is an issue of stability and reliability in a ranking system that is basically something called “Bayesian priors” and they way they created that data was from faulty theory, and they still don’t have nearly the amount of data they need to make their bad theory for ranking (Based in ELO) functional.
Google this: “Elo vs. Regression to the Mean: A Theoretical Comparison” if you want to deep dive
They created permanent instability by refusing to use individual statistics and now it’s showing more than ever, They keep using win/loss primarily and it’s just, purely, scientifically wrong. There IS a way to fix their kludged and wrong-headed system design though.
Two overlapping systems. Individual play focused at low rank but back to team focused (win/loss) at high rank.
Dude! Like I told you before, they are not going to put in some massive amount of effort required to build something like TrueSkill ranking system when other game companies like Riot still get away with making some BS, cobbled together, ELO Frankenstein. I love you bro, but you’re stuck in technical details and not seeing the big picture.
It’s just too much work to follow in Microsoft’s footsteps and the whole technical subject is practically as hard as advanced physics. Microsoft’s TrueSkill project was a HUGE investment of research and development made for many different games and Blizz isn’t going to make that sort of giant, long-term dev-team investment for something that doesn’t instantly produce cash THIS QUARTER. If it’s not customer facing, it’s not going to get funded. PERIOD.
That’s background work that customers won’t see or appreciate and therefore won’t throw money at like they would for a new skin or something. So fluff gets funded and meat gets put on the back burner. EVERY TIME.
Sure, your suggestion is to update their simpler system but OW1 had the same system and the same problems and they never fixed it. They are going to wait it out or just arbitrarily strengthen the effect of the bayesian priors to create artificial stability. Sure that makes it way more unfair, but it’s the super-quick fix to stability that they can get away with. A few vocal players will be made happy and those mule-headcoverings will just shame everyone else into being quiet.
I’d bet a billion dollars that’s what they reach for. The smallest possible effort to give the illusion of progress. That’s what all toxic development houses do. They maintain the illusion with the barest minimal effort to maximize profit and just let the crap system eventualy fail so they can move onto the next cash grab.
Pump and Dump is the corpo strategy of this century. A shiny outside with garbage inside is the shortest route to profit.
This isn’t technical, bro! It’s a money allocation problem. It’s a power dynamic issue of execs versus devs. It’s social not technical!
The solution is really easy; the problem most people have is that the rank that shows isn’t matched to the rank they are playing. What needs to be done is update the rank on the fly based on the MMR position. For example, if I am a low gold but am playing with diamonds or masters and win the next game, change my rank to diamond or master based on where the MMR landed. If I lose the game, do the same in the other direction again based on the MMR.
The rank should be updated to reflect the actual MMR the player has.
I saw top-50 tracer players, for example, playing on the low diamond, which makes no sense because they were playing against GM. Why can’t the system just update the rankings on the fly instead of having “7 wins or 20 losses” updates that keep them in a position they don’t belong in while playing against players of their skill but in the real tiers they should be?
When a player wins more than 50% of their matches, we start to increase their MMR faster.
I’d imagine they have an internal knowledge base of things they’ve said in the past about the matchmaker and what inconsistencies need to be covered up with future statements.
I’m having so much fun with this MM that I literally want to die. attempting to escape gold by playing against people 5 or 7 tiers higher than me while my team is at or below my level. Imposible. lose after losing, then it gifts me with a free win that I even have to play for. then lose, and lose, and lose.
It’s impossible to improve my gameplay with this type of game.
i just had 7 loses in row, for example one of the match, i had 5 randoms plat-diamond team with awfull tank vs 4 stack masters on smurfs (i watched stream one of he after match) is it fair matchmaking? i forgot mention, one of them leave at next round , and they rolled us 4x5. how do i suppose to win games like this?! maybe you just should add warning and button, warning about “OUR MATCHMAKING SYSTEMS THINKS YOU ARE 5.0 MMR SO ITS TIME TO BRING YOU DOWN” and button wich allows to just skip this sh#t?! make it autochess where easy bots fight hard bots , + 10 loses ez
my mental health doesnt allow me to play these type of games where you MUST BE ROLLED
This game is a joke and I’m glad I quit it in November.
They literally give you a Bronze tank against a plat one and then people tell you it’s a skill issue on your part when one tank keeps suiciding due to inexperience while the other at least sticks with the team.
They aren’t trying to get you to a mmr rank, they are trying to create a match at your current mmr that should yield a 50% win rate as mentioned in their dev blog. This is based on historical performance.
Going back to the original point of this discussion regarding rank, which they drastically decay each season. If you combine the 2 concepts, you’ll find that you will not climb rank UNLESS you materially get better and have a crazy high win rate (made up the number of 60%+).
The TLDR here is that the match making logic (50% win target) and the rank decay each season - you will not climb rank unless you get significantly better and quickly (unrealistic for most players).
i didnt mean match you to your fake rank(diamond, plat, gold) i meant to what rank you should be. sorry was not clear. they are trying to make the MMR rank match where you should be in the ranking.
the rank decay is only to your fake rank, not to your mmr rank. if your mmr is diamond at end of season, next season you are in diamond lobbies even if your rank says bronze.
and you dont need to win more than 50% to raise your fake rank( the only rank you see). if you keep winning 50% and you MMR is higher than the fake rank, the fake rank will keep going up.
again 50% moving average is what they said. that is if your average over the past 50 games is blow 50% you will move down, if it is above you will be moved up. until you stabilize. btw 50 games is a guess, it can be any number.
and again the decay is only to your fake rank.
basically this. if you finished the season in diamond 3 and got deranked to plat 4. if you played 50 games and your rank is in fact diamond 3, you will reach diamond 3.
let me put it this way. as an exercise think what you need to design a system that ranks people, and what will be the parameters you put in it. you will see that quite a bit of it will be similar if not identical to what blizzard have. the rank systems is not keeping you down. the fact you think it does keeps your down.
if the MMR system judge 1 game at a time it will fail to correctly adjust people within 10 games. (from everyone properly ranked to complete chaos in 10 games). but it doesnt do that.
personally im more concerned about the lack of what rank i am actually playing at than my current rank.
This is the point I’m specifically disagreeing with. If everybody else is deranked from diamond 3 to plat 4 yet prexisting MMR is used to match make then most will not return to diamond 3 UNLESS either A) a significant improvement or B) new players added to the pool that are less skilled (thus adding more people between plat 4 and diamond 3). The reason why is Diamond 3 doesn’t mean anything whatsoever, but winning games vs others at your MMR does.
BTW, MMR is a rating, not a rank. Per the dev post…
Numerically it is modeled in their example as a value from -3.0 to +3.0 with the bulk of population at 0.0. It is a point in time measurement relative to others.
Rank however is a progression system not relative to others but relative to your own prior performance in the current season.
Sounds good. Can’t wait for this game to be playable in a few months. Why not just go back to SR? While you’re at it, get rid of this brain dead 7/20 system.
I’m a day 1 overwatch player. I never really played comp as much as I do now. I didn’t play last season because like I said I didn’t play comp as much. I started to play more of comp this season. Obviously, since I didn’t do my placements last season I got placed in bronze or silver once I did my placements for this season. So, I just started playing more and more often and now I am currently diamond 4. Now it’s just win/lose type of matches where I win the first game then the next game I get completely rolled. Honestly it’s making me feel like I’m not good at the game at all even though I’m non-stop just trying and trying and I still lose. Please Overwatch Devs, fix the matchmaking it’s completely unfair and so broken.